Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2014, 10:59   #31
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
While SD may be out the running, it is not for reasons of wind. As TS says there is plenty of wind here afternoons when the seabreeze kicks in.

The AC72s don't run at 10kt, more like 20-25 which is a lot more exciting even for the general public.

From a spectator point of view SD would be great, lots of places to watch races in the bay from, especially Pt Loma.

I don't oppose the races coming here, I'm just pointing out they wouldn't work here with the current boats.
They won't be running 20-25 kts in light airs....which was my point. Actually they can well exceed 30 kts in heavy airs. The 2017 boats will be shorter in length.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 11:03   #32
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I expect the same as in SF. I think SF has about the same amount of kelp as we do.

When I said it was lumpier outside the bay, I meant bigger waves and swell.
Pretty rare to have kelp inside of the SF Bay. Kelp does not grow inside the Bay. The water is typically too turbid for the photosynthetically active radiation to penetrate beyond a meter or two. We do have patches of eel grass here and there but it is not as bad at slowing down boats as kelp is.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 11:03   #33
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,621
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
They won't be running 20-25 kts in light airs....which was my point. Actually they can exceed 30 kts in heavy airs. The 2017 boats will be shorter in length.
Compared to SF Bay just about everywhere in the world is light air so I think your perceptions might be a bit skewed.

SD has moderate to heavy wind consistently during summer afternoons.
__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 12:13   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,115
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe68 View Post
What will happen when one of those boats hits some kelp at high speed?
No kelp in Bermuda, and the proposed likely course used to handle smaller aircraft carriers when the site was a US Navy seaplane base.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 14:57   #35
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
OK

Let's have an American boat defend the America's Cup in Bermuda where it is so much easier to watch than in San Diego.
I know you're being sarcastic but when they were in SF, I saw them from both my boat and the shore. By far, the best veiw was in front of 54" TV screen. For me, I'd rather see them in Bermuda where the winds and sea conditions are steady.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
San Diego is out of consideration. Not enough wind to make for an exciting race either. The race has to appeal to the general public which will find boats going around a course at less than 10 knots to be boring. Sure, sailors who already understand sailing will find it interesting, but we are a small minority of the public and our viewership alone does not even pay to set up the television cameras. We don't see NASCAR races below 100 MPH do we?


Too bad San Francisco politicians are stupid, political and blew it.

Chicago definitely has wind in the Summer, like SF Bay does.
Exactly. The winds are minimal in strength and duration. Oh great...you have at best a moderate wind condition for a few hours. Any wind on either side of that is cruising boat wind. What no one has mentioned is that these guys practice almost every day. They won't want to wait around for a couple of hours of moderate wind each day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
They won't be running 20-25 kts in light airs....which was my point. Actually they can well exceed 30 kts in heavy airs. The 2017 boats will be shorter in length.
Even though they will be shorter, they will probably design some more speed into them somehow. My hope is that they are a little safer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Compared to SF Bay just about everywhere in the world is light air so I think your perceptions might be a bit skewed.


SD has moderate to heavy wind consistently during summer afternoons.
Its not about being screwed, the reality is the winds are better suited for the A-cup boats and it blows from noon to 6pm. everyday.
SD has light to barely moderate winds inconsistently but rarely heavy.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 15:30   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
My hope is that they are a little safer.
Aside from these boats being professional race gear so on the edge anyway, the previous design was not meant to foil. While they found that they could make it foil within the design parameters, they could not have much control of that foiling within those parameters. This is what made those boats dangerous and squirrely.

The new design is specifically a foiling design that has removed all hobbling rules and allows full-out control of every aspect of foiling. These will be much safer and controllable boats than the previous ones.

These boats can reach speeds 2-3x windspeed, and can foil in 10kts, so I don't think lower winds will be a problem.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 18:59   #37
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,685
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Aside from these boats being professional race gear so on the edge anyway, the previous design was not meant to foil. While they found that they could make it foil within the design parameters, they could not have much control of that foiling within those parameters. This is what made those boats dangerous and squirrely.

The new design is specifically a foiling design that has removed all hobbling rules and allows full-out control of every aspect of foiling. These will be much safer and controllable boats than the previous ones.

These boats can reach speeds 2-3x windspeed, and can foil in 10kts, so I don't think lower winds will be a problem.

Mark
Mark, if what you wrote in your last paragraph is actually correct, then why did the Kiwis refuse to race in San Diego?

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 19:37   #38
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Mark, if what you wrote in your last paragraph is actually correct, then why did the Kiwis refuse to race in San Diego?

Ann
I don't know. I don't think the Kiwis have a choice in the venue. They can decide not to pursue the challenge of course. I haven't heard that they have called it off.

The last AC race showed what the boats could do in light air, and they were not full-on foiling vessels.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 20:19   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,455
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
The last AC race showed what the boats could do in light air, and they were not full-on foiling vessels.
Mark, from memory, there was but one race run in light airs... the one where the Kiwi's were way in front but ran out of time to finish... where they would have won the cup if they had finished. That one!

And again from memory, it was the only boring race of the whole series. Except to the Kiwis!

And in the warped mirror world of the AC, who can attribute any motive to any action that we outsiders are privy to? Don't know if the Kiwis really don't want to sail in SD, but I did read that they were having some funding difficulties at one stage. It is all smoke and mirrors, and the mirrors, as stated, are the kind you see in fun houses at the fair!

What a travesty...

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 20:23   #40
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,685
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I don't know. I don't think the Kiwis have a choice in the venue. They can decide not to pursue the challenge of course. I haven't heard that they have called it off.

The last AC race showed what the boats could do in light air, and they were not full-on foiling vessels.

Mark
Mark, I have to confess that I heard that, but have not been able to find a reference validating it.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 06:34   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: America's Cup....Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Mark, from memory, there was but one race run in light airs... the one where the Kiwi's were way in front but ran out of time to finish... where they would have won the cup if they had finished. That one!

And again from memory, it was the only boring race of the whole series. Except to the Kiwis!
Boring is relative, of course - that race was compared to the previous ones! If it was compared to any other AC race of past years, those boats were screaming - in that race, they still averaged 7kts through the course in 5-8kts of wind.

The boats themselves were designed for 5-30kts. Races were called when the winds exceeded 20kts, and many of the races were in the 10-15kt range. I wouldn't call that heavy air, and the boats were doing 35kts in those conditions - going over 40kts when the winds got above 15kts.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 08:38   #42
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Mexico, working on the boat
Boat: Hallberg Rassy 35. and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 8,013
Images: 5
Re: America's Cup....Really?

IMHO...the AC's of the past (pre cat) were as boring as boring could get. To watch a race where those slugs did 12kts. and any distance between them made it all the more boring. It was about as much a spectator sport as watching paint dry. Enter the 45 and 72ft. foiling cats. Faster than the wind x2+, hair raising takes and jibes and actual passing based on skill and ability. Sorry...good wind is 80% of the new races. Without it, I'd rather watch an El Toro Jr. class race.
__________________

__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

http://wwwjolielle.blogspot.com/
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NPR on America's Cup sneuman Multihull Sailboats 51 23-06-2010 15:49
America's Cup - First race postponed? speedoo General Sailing Forum 0 08-02-2010 08:05
Spanish club will be America's Cup challenger sneuman Multihull Sailboats 10 08-04-2009 19:55
China Aims to Make Run for America's Cup sneuman Monohull Sailboats 11 11-10-2007 23:21
Lodging for the 32rd America's Cup in Valencia? vedouze Europe & Mediterranean 0 03-01-2006 03:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.