Amel 64 , will it sail in light winds ?

[boom23]

Based on your post, and the fact that you know nothing about sailboats and maybe boats, I would strongly recommend that you hire someone you trust to guide you. Also, charter a lot of boats with a captain.

There are WAY too many variables regarding boats. In addition, you do not really know what you want, except maybe the size of a boat.

Only time on the water teaches you what you want or like on a boat, not pictures or videos or other people's opinions...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Factor

Great boats, but not a snowflakes chance in hell of sailing in 5 knots of breeze

Download the HR64 speed table here, provided by the designer:
Hallberg-Rassy 64

and you will find out that the boat with a code o and half weight can do with 4kt wind between 70º and 110º a speed over 5kt.

With 6kt winds can do a speed over 5kt between 45º and 135º and between 70º and 110º over 7kt speed.

Normally with these winds many times there are no waves and even if a cruising boat is normally sailed between half weight and full load, with some loss in speed, I would say that your statement is a bit exaggerated.

Modern HR has nothing to do with the performance of the older ones and they sail decently in all conditions, including light winds.

[Braavos]

Originally Posted by boom23

Based on your post, and the fact that you know nothing about sailboats and maybe boats, I would strongly recommend that you hire someone you trust to guide you. Also, charter a lot of boats with a captain.

There are WAY too many variables regarding boats. In addition, you do not really know what you want, except maybe the size of a boat.

Only time on the water teaches you what you want or like on a boat, not pictures or videos or other people's opinions...

Amel 64 , HR 64 , oyster 675 , .. Setting price aside . I wanted to have a starting point to go from , I will be flying back to Europe , this spring. To look at some time on the water. ..
Money is important , but I didn't want to buy a starter boat , which is what everybody keeps repeating repeating repeating advising me to do ... I don't like buying a starter , that I know I'm going to turn around and sell in a year or two . I'd really like to make a good informed decision , on what I think is best , and it's a boat that I can keep...... a boat that when I look at it I can say me and that boat that I have sailed together for years .
I do know , I'm not buying used .

[Braavos]

Originally Posted by J Clark H356

Since you haven’t sailed, you need to consider both the mast height above the water so you can get into ports under bridges, and the depth of the keel. The boats you are looking at presently have both deep keel and tall masts. These are factors in where you can go as many places are off limits with 9’ plus keels and 100 foot masts. Just keep that in mind as you decide what to buy. Where you go is determined by both the above factors, and most cruisers spend much more time in port or at anchor than they do going place to place.

???? So you're saying you think the draft on the

Halberg Rassy 64. Is too deep for the Caribbean?? It's listed at about 9 feet and I know the beneteau's are only 5 feet but I thought I could get by with a nine foot draft ??

[Braavos]

Discovery 67. ... I was also wondering if anyone had any comments positive and negative about the handling and the overall view of this boat it's a little smaller than what I was starting to look at but I really like the design of the boat any comments?

[beneteau-500]

Braavos , May I suggest you contact Bill , Judy at www.amelschool.com

[windpipe]

Originally Posted by Braavos

Amel 64 , HR 64 , oyster 675 , .. Setting price aside . I wanted to have a starting point to go from , I will be flying back to Europe , this spring. To look at some time on the water. ..
Money is important , but I didn't want to buy a starter boat , which is what everybody keeps repeating repeating repeating advising me to do ... I don't like buying a starter , that I know I'm going to turn around and sell in a year or two . I'd really like to make a good informed decision , on what I think is best , and it's a boat that I can keep...... a boat that when I look at it I can say me and that boat that I have sailed together for years .
I do know , I'm not buying used .

How many people do you anticipate having on board, just curious.

What else do you like about a 60-70 ft boat size?

[Braavos]

Originally Posted by windpipe

How many people do you anticipate having on board, just curious.

What else do you like about a 60-70 ft boat size?

I hate answering this question because it's going to open me up to a whole lot of rebuttal..

But , from what I have been told by many people ,, is that an experienced sailor never needs to go over 50 to 60 feet of a boat solo sailing ,,, that anything bigger and it's just too much. , especially in docking. , but an experienced sailor with all the new electric, hydraulic control winches can still pretty easily sail a 5o to 60 footer. , and I hope to reach that point someday...
+ 50 to 60 feet gives you three to four, Nice cabins for my friends and visiting family ..
I dive , so I will need a dive compressor. , storage for four sets of dive tanks and wet gear .
Plus 2 kayaks .. A. 25 hp. (Or more) dinghy ..

I know I'm going to want to radar , forward-looking sonar , and air conditioning because I'm older and spoiled . . . Plus if everything goes like I'm expecting ... (I'm older and retired now.) , I want a boat that I can reasonably comfortably live on for a Mediterranean Cruise. , one summer, and then more summers in the Caribbean ..
I'm not going to sell everything and live on a boat .. don't get that idea ... I did sell my home , but I have a vacation house that I plan on keeping ..
.. I've been on diving charters , and Chartered some fishing boats , but to be honest I have never chartered a Sailing Boat .. I've only been on a sailboat once in my entire life that belonged to friends of mine , who took me sailing for a day, and I absolutely loved it !! Granted it was a beautiful day for sailing ,, but I have been in rough Seas on dive charters. ,, and in the Caribbean on fishing trips down to Nassau Bahamas..
I figure I still got 12 good years left in me to go sailing , fishing, and diving , and I'm really ready to do some traveling ,, .. I'm not worried about the boat being in the Mediterranean ,, if I don't feel like selling it back across the Atlantic , I'll just hire a crew , a Transport company , and move it back to the Caymans or British Virgin Islands .
I have been researching online how about Sea Captain's that you can hire out to Staff your boat.
.. and before a lot of people read this post and say all I need to do is Charter , please refrain yourselves.. this my dream.. I love Europe and the Caribbean , and I love the idea of having a boat... chartering would be a lot cheaper , but depending on how things go , maybe someday I'll end up with a condo on an island in the Caribbean. with my boat sitting in eyesight in a marina..
I have read every post on this form , replying to my original post. , and I picked up some good tips , and learned some things I want to thank everyone for replying..
One guy said I needed to talk to boat salesman, and Boat companies. , ... I refrained for making the reply that I I wanted to make ,.... no one should talk to a boat salesman, or a boat company. , or a car salesman, or a car company , or any other type of salesman without going in with some kind of knowledge about the product they're intending to purchase ,,, so my intent , on this form was to pick up enough knowledge , from YouTube videos , and talking to experience boat Sailors, to give me some general idea before I talk to any salesman. , and got snowballed into buying what they wanted to sell ...
.... someone posted about mast height and Draft .. it was a good point ,but being having some experience with boats. I was already aware of Reefs and shallows in the the Caribbean, although I'm not sure the importance of mast height , pertaining to what I want to use the boat for ?
.. unfortunately I'm just totally lost when it comes to sailing but I will pick it up .

[Jim Cate]

I'd really like to make a good informed decision , on what I think is best

Statements like this, coupled with 'gotta be new' and "gotta be 60-70 feet long" coming from someone who does not even know how to sail leave me shaking my head. We get threads like this every year or so, started by folks who seem to have large budgets and zero experience. I can't remember any of them coming back and telling us what they have actually purchased and sailed away in.

Wonder how this one will play out? Braavo, please keep us informed as you go through the purchase procedure... it will be informative.

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

Modern Amels like the 64 are better sailers than older ones but they are not boats designed to sail on very light winds. They have a big tankage for that.



The 17.00 SA/D is average for a modern cruiser with medium displacement, the 189 D/L is a medium one for a boat of that size.

Even so I am sure it would not have problems sailing well with 10k wind. With 5k forget about it. With lighter than 10k you would have to use a big code 0 and that can be trouble for a couple.

The numbers are similar to the ones of an Halberg-Rassy 64 for instance except in what regards B/D that is much bigger on the HR. The HR will sail better with bad weather and high winds but regarding light winds the performance will be very similar (without a code 0).

With a code 0 the numbers will be considerably better on the HR that has a much bigger mast (the Amel is a Ketch). With a big Code 0 the HR with 6Kt wind will make easily 6kt.



If you want a cruiser that has a good performance in light winds (without a code 0) and a performance better than the HR in strong winds and heavy weather go for something like the X6 that has a 147 D/L and a 23 SA/D.

I am not saying that any of these boats are bad, quite the contrary, even if in what regards the Amel and the HR I would prefer clearly the HR due to a much bigger B/D ratio for a very similar boat otherwise (except the ketch configuration).



The X6 is just a different type of boat and even if it does not belong to the cruiser racer line of Xyachts but to the cruiser line it is a boat designed for the ones that like as much to sail as to cruise. Only this type sailors will sail in very light winds while the owner of an Amel, more specifically cruiser oriented and less sail concerned, will just turn the engine on.

All these boats are oriented for long range cruising, you have just to know what type of sailor and cruiser you are

The numbers are similar to those of my boat, and I can sail at 2/3 of true wind speed so long as the wind is ahead of the beam. So in 5 knots I can make 3 knots with the white sails.

Boats like that Amel, or my boat, will normally be motored or motor sailed in very light conditions, especially if the wind is behind the beam. Bigger boats are nicer to motor, so for many that's a perfectly acceptable solution. Otherwise you want a light wind sail - a cruising Code 0 on a furler is not hard to handle, but you need a sprit. Or a boat with bigger SA/D as Paolo suggested, but you'll still want the Code 0 if you want to avoid motoring in very light conditions, plus maybe a Parasailor if you want to do long passages downwind in very light conditions.

But your choice of boat is fine in my opinion. Should sail well in a wide range of conditions, and the double headed ketch rig gives you a wide choice of sail plan for stronger conditions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Braavos

Thanks for the reply.. I think I worded my question poorly. mainly I've heard that camels are slow boats heavy and require more wind , than the average Cruiser so mainly I was looking for feedback from anyone that had an experience with an Amel , to find out how great the difference is..

Not that Amel, which is not a racer, but not heavy for the waterline length, and with a decent amount of canvas. You will be able to make 200 mile days not rarely on that boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Braavos

Amel 64 , HR 64 , oyster 675 , .. Setting price aside . I wanted to have a starting point to go from , I will be flying back to Europe , this spring. To look at some time on the water. ..
Money is important , but I didn't want to buy a starter boat , which is what everybody keeps repeating repeating repeating advising me to do ... I don't like buying a starter , that I know I'm going to turn around and sell in a year or two . I'd really like to make a good informed decision , on what I think is best , and it's a boat that I can keep...... a boat that when I look at it I can say me and that boat that I have sailed together for years .
I do know , I'm not buying used .

They are all good, there's no bad decision here, all incredible boats.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Polux

No you are wrong regarding a low B/D ratio and if you understood that I am saying that the hull of the HR is better than the one of the Amel because the one of the Amel is beamier you have understood me wrongly. They are just different regarding that point with different advantages and disadvantages.

Newer designs from HR than the one of the 64 are proportionally more beamier even if the 64 is already proportionally beamier than older HR.

Wide beam yes I have in the past defended that, but wide beam then (at that time), it is a normal beam now, I was just pointing to the development trend in cruising boat design.

And wide beam for main market cruising boats, with the beam pulled back, (taking as reference solo offshore racer's hulls) makes a lot of sense for many reasons including sailing with less heel, having a more stable platform and having more easily driven boats on autopilot and downwind.

But Paolo, the HR 64 is LESS beamy than any other production HR (as was explained to me by the factory -- we don't actually have the numbers), not more beamy. It's very narrow, actually -- only 17 feet, more than a foot less beamy than the Amel, which has a foot less waterline.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the stiffness of both boats based on the simple quantity of ballast. The Amel has a much lower ketch rig, and is wider, so will be much stiffer with less ballast. It's also a couple tonnes lighter.


I looked very hard at the HR 64 myself before deciding to go custom -- it was the last production boat I seriously considered. A big difference to the Amel is the much larger engine -- 300 horsepower vs 200 -- and huge tankage -- almost two tonnes of fuel. I like both boats, but the Amel aesthetics are not for everyone.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Braavos

Amel 64 , HR 64 , oyster 675 , .. Setting price aside . I wanted to have a starting point to go from , I will be flying back to Europe , this spring. To look at some time on the water. ..
Money is important , but I didn't want to buy a starter boat , which is what everybody keeps repeating repeating repeating advising me to do ... I don't like buying a starter , that I know I'm going to turn around and sell in a year or two . I'd really like to make a good informed decision , on what I think is best , and it's a boat that I can keep...... a boat that when I look at it I can say me and that boat that I have sailed together for years .
I do know , I'm not buying used .

No need to start with a starter boat. If you've got the money, you'll be happy with a boat like this. But do hire a professional captain. The HR can be ordered with a crew cabin. Find a pro you trust and let him help you choose the boat.

One of the great things about boats over 60' is that this is now big enough for professional crew. I had a professional mate/engineer on my present boat the first few years and sure miss it now. I will reinstate the practice on my next boat.

[Braavos]

Thanks for the comment. How did you go about locating your professional mate ? was it through the manufacturer ?