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Old 25-11-2015, 09:52   #16
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

I have a slightly different take on this. What are you committed to? If you are trying to make them wrong, (and they probably are), you have been successful. If you want to save money and get a good deal, you have other options. Get their phone number either on their web-site or e-mail them for it, or, just e-mail them for the price. I usually go for the good deal.
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Old 25-11-2015, 10:05   #17
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

It is annoying. I usually give those sites a pass, but not always.
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Old 25-11-2015, 11:16   #18
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
Am I being too sensitive? Am I overreacting to this intrusive practice?
Not at all. The practice of requiring a customer to register before you will tell him a price is just incredibly STUPID! How long do you think Sam Walton would have stayed in business if, before a customer was allowed to enter a Walmart store, the customer was required to give their name, address, and phone number to that greeter at the door? (I'll give you the answer: less time than it took you to read the question.)

It really is kind of sad, in this day and age, how many companies do this. How many are too friggin' stupid to figure out that this is a totally counter-productive practice.

No, you were not over-sensitive. A company that is that stupid does not deserve your business. A company that is that stupid does not deserve anyone's business. What a company that is that stupid DOES deserve is to go out of business as quickly as possible.
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Old 25-11-2015, 13:42   #19
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

I don't really object to the sales pitch before the price - let them give me all the reasons why their product is better and worth more - then give me the price, and they even can have a second attempt at convincing me that their product will perform better, is a good value over the long term, will make sailing easier or more efficient .... None of that requires me to do anything .... I don't AM THE CUSTOMER !
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Old 25-11-2015, 14:08   #20
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

A friend of the family had a successful Ford dealership. He said if you do not advertise the price you are asking too much.
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Old 25-11-2015, 14:12   #21
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Makes me think about how stupid some yards are... Biz is off and so what to they do? Raise prices on remaining customers to make up for lost revenues. What happens? More customers take their boats and business elsewhere.

Instead of LOWERING their prices to attract new business they drive it away with no value added... just charge more.
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Old 25-11-2015, 15:44   #22
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Hi All. Thanks for your replies. Nice to get the perspective of others. It's obvious such tactics are hurting businesses that do this far more than they realize.

I did write to them telling them what I thought of their practices and said I won't be buying from you. They sent me an email apologizing while sayin I'm the first person to have complained. They also gave me the prices for their different sizes of props.

I replied back that perhaps they shouldn't be driven by their techies or what technology can do for themselves without stopping to consider what things may tick off customers an affect your business badly. I also said you shouldn't take it, because I was the only person that took the time to point out my annoyance at your site that I am the only one upset by it. You have no idea I am sure how many people just move on to another company.

In a way I'm glad I had the issue. Now I will spend more time considering other propeller options and not be so motivated by a shinny new nice looking prop in a pic.

Thanks all.
Chaya
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:18   #23
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
I clicked on an add by a propeller manufacturer on this site. [...]

[...]

This is what I wrote.
I attempted to find out the price of your prop and searched unsuccessfully. I then went to the shopping cart and found that even there you do not give a price without me having to register.
[...]

Again, I hope I am not being over sensitive and just plain argumentative in my old age. What do you all think of this type of behavior from online sellers?
Hello walkabout,

I'm certainly not standing up for that manufacturer but can shed some light on the other side of the coin, if I may?

It's a bit more complex than what meets the eye. Talking from my own experience as an Australian reseller of European products one needs to understand the difference between manufacturer and reseller.

The manufacturer sets their RRP (recommended retail price) and, in most cases, advertises it on their website. A reseller gets a margin on that RRP but has to import the goods and pay duties; he also has to cover his own costs of running a business including a number of insurance policies, e.g. for liability coverage. For low revenue shops these costs can already eat up the margins and he has to put a so-called "uplift" on his price.

Hence a reseller is not happy about a manufacturer advertising their price in their country which he cannot possibly match, let alone beat.

So just for a minute put yourself in the shoes of the manufacturer or the reseller. Especially in a low volume niche market like props, the manufacturer would have a hard time finding any reseller if he's also selling direct and the margins he gives to the resellers are moderate.
In a broad market (like the printer mentioned above) some manufacturers had to stop selling directly to the consumer in order to give the resellers a fair chance (or to protect them, you might say).

I pretty much gave up hoping for any reasonable support from goods I bought in China. Most of them can only offer you a small refund if something is not working (as expected).

Coming back to your prop, I was in the same boat as you (so to speak) and what I did was googling the same product adding "price" at the end of the search. That gave me at least an indication what (the few) resellers of said prop would quote me. Then I can decide to look for a different brand of, say, folding props, as that particular one could be out of my or your league.

So the base line is that manufacturers might have a valid reason not to advertise their RRP whereas resellers should better disclose them or loose business.
What the manufacturer can do best is pay for the marketing and advertising of their products on a global level, like banner ads to keep CF up and running.
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:20   #24
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Once you sign up, their little windows will pop up on every site you go to. I have two popping up today....
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Old 25-11-2015, 16:58   #25
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

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Once you sign up, their little windows will pop up on every site you go to. I have two popping up today....
I don't understand why legislators don't pass tougher anti-spam laws along with anti-tracking laws. Where are the consumer protection advocates like in the days of yore?
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:27   #26
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

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I don't understand why legislators don't pass tougher anti-spam laws along with anti-tracking laws. Where are the consumer protection advocates like in the days of yore?
Yeah, it's totally rampant. Legislators work for business not people. Fraud in advertising is rampant. For instance, when you are shopping an internet provider they give link speed in maximum! So if they say "up to 20,000 gigs".. that could be zero. It's BS.
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:38   #27
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hzcruiser View Post
Hello walkabout,

I'm certainly not standing up for that manufacturer but can shed some light on the other side of the coin, if I may?

It's a bit more complex than what meets the eye. Talking from my own experience as an Australian reseller of European products one needs to understand the difference between manufacturer and reseller.

The manufacturer sets their RRP (recommended retail price) and, in most cases, advertises it on their website. A reseller gets a margin on that RRP but has to import the goods and pay duties; he also has to cover his own costs of running a business including a number of insurance policies, e.g. for liability coverage. For low revenue shops these costs can already eat up the margins and he has to put a so-called "uplift" on his price.

Hence a reseller is not happy about a manufacturer advertising their price in their country which he cannot possibly match, let alone beat.

So just for a minute put yourself in the shoes of the manufacturer or the reseller. Especially in a low volume niche market like props, the manufacturer would have a hard time finding any reseller if he's also selling direct and the margins he gives to the resellers are moderate.
In a broad market (like the printer mentioned above) some manufacturers had to stop selling directly to the consumer in order to give the resellers a fair chance (or to protect them, you might say).

I pretty much gave up hoping for any reasonable support from goods I bought in China. Most of them can only offer you a small refund if something is not working (as expected).

Coming back to your prop, I was in the same boat as you (so to speak) and what I did was googling the same product adding "price" at the end of the search. That gave me at least an indication what (the few) resellers of said prop would quote me. Then I can decide to look for a different brand of, say, folding props, as that particular one could be out of my or your league.

So the base line is that manufacturers might have a valid reason not to advertise their RRP whereas resellers should better disclose them or loose business.
What the manufacturer can do best is pay for the marketing and advertising of their products on a global level, like banner ads to keep CF up and running.
You know in Australia about 20 years ago they passed anti price fixing legislation. They called it anti retail price maintenance. The reason for this piece of consumer protection legislation was to inject true market competition into the market place. A fundamental of a truly free market economy.

When you have price fixing at the retail level and such things as whole industries under monopolistic control you have a distortion of market forces that ultimately works against the capitalist free market economy.

Many economic historians point to the robber baron monopolies and the control they exercised over the economy as one of the biggest contributors to the Great Depression. Anti trust laws where then instituted along with laws such as the Glass Steagals Act which put restraint on Bank monopolies.

What we are now seeing in the digital economy is an attempt by manufacturers to exercise price "controls". It seems to be more prevalent in the marine industry. An industry that has tried more than most others to rig and control prices and not subject themselves to a free market.

Just my additional thoughts on this subject for what it's worth.

Chaya
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:42   #28
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Let all suspicious Geezers unite. You do no need these Bozos as much as they need you. (or your data to sell)
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Old 25-11-2015, 17:45   #29
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Quote:
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I don't understand why legislators don't pass tougher anti-spam laws along with anti-tracking laws. Where are the consumer protection advocates like in the days of yore?
Dead and gone long time ago. This is now "corporation is a person" country. And by the looks of it the most important person in the country. George Orwell is spinning in his grave.
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Old 25-11-2015, 21:34   #30
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Re: Am I being to sensitive regarding a prop sellers online selling policy?

Along the same lines, my state recently passed a law to require all operators of power boats, including auxiliary sail boats, to obtain an operators certification. No problem, that's a good thing even if I detest government regulation run amok. But when I signed on to take the state-approved test on the BoatUS website one of the fill-in boxes asked for my race. I left it blank and completed the rest of the form but it wouldn't register me until I filled in that box. I logged off and called BoatUS. I told someone pretty high up in that organization that my race had nothing to do with my ability to operate a power boat and that I insisted they take that off there registration form. The guy lied and told me that they needed that information for identification purposes since the cards do not have photos on them. I said that was BS and that I knew exactly why the want race information and that was to sell their mailing lists and demographic data to other vendors. Later I logged on and put some bogus info on the form and took the test. When I got the certificate race was not even shown on it.
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