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Old 01-10-2013, 16:25   #196
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

You can't address pre existing conditions without forcing everyone to enroll. Maybe I should say compel.

that's again my beef with Medicare, as long as you can survive until 65, BAM covered.

And before anyone talks about paying in, consider the average lifetime payin is about 1/3 the eventual payout in services especially as costs rise.

I would gladly vote to repeal the ACA as long as Medicaid and Medicare were done at the same time. Any money leftover In the Medicare fund could be given out as lump sum payments to those over 65 and they could be told to shop around like everyone else.

How would selling policies across state lines do much if anything? doesn't make car insurance any less in high risk areas.

It's just another smoke and mirrors tactic about what's so wrong with the ACA.
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Old 01-10-2013, 16:27   #197
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No you see, people in the US have come to expect their hospitals to look like that. That's one of the things making it all so expensive! the pretense of quality. when my daughter was born in NZ, the small country hospital was being renovated and you had to enter maternity thru the service area behind the hospital. Looks like going thru the Chernobyl site or something. She had great care, was in the hospital w/ baby for 6 days. Would have been sent home in 36 hours or so in the US and separated from baby. when she was released they had just completed the new fancy sliding glass front door to the ward!
Now we do agree here...100%. Not to sound like a broken record...but had a similar experience in CR. I was actually supposed to deliver at the gorgeous, private, Baylor-affiliated hospital across town. But I had unexpected problems and my Dra. sent me straight to the closest one because it was 5 min from her home. It was the local private catholic hospital. Nice but not "gringo" standards. My care was exceptional. Certainly not plush but in healthcare, cleanliness and quality of staff really matters more than the furniture. And like sailing, in a lot of instances the skill of the staff is more important than how new the equipment is.
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Old 01-10-2013, 16:32   #198
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Wiki clearly says its a myth that congressmen and Senators can bypass the ACA, I quote



SO....

dave
With regards to congress and their staffs perhaps you will like the phraseology changed from exemptions to that they will be treated differently than regular Americans? The Feds will subsidize the exchange premiums rather than having the individual apply for tax credits and subsidies. The private sector by law cannot do this.


So, my larger point of course is that why arenít all citizens being treated the same? Why are there waivers, exemptions and special deals for select groups? Why are there Obamacare waivers for anyone?


Again, I am not arguing against the law. It is here. I am commenting on the inherent unfairness of different groups being treated differently.


FWIW, I personally can attest that some kind of change was needed. I lost my employee health insurance and after COBRA ran out I had three years to Medicare and was uninsurable except at some totally unaffordable price.


Fortunately I was eligible for VA care although I had co-pays. It worked out great but I was lucky.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:08   #199
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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So, my larger point of course is that why aren’t all citizens being treated the same? Why are there waivers, exemptions and special deals for select groups? Why are there Obamacare waivers for anyone?
.
That's not really a question about healthcare, but rather one about basic governance since MANY different groups are treated differently through just about every part of society.

The tax code provides the very poor AND the very rich, tax credits AND exemptions which are not available to me. Americans over 65 are allowed to enroll in Medicare, but I am not. Americans under 21 can serve their country in the services, but can't drink. Groups are, and have always been, treated differently in this country. That's always been the norm. Not saying it's right, but it is what's always been the norm.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:12   #200
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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The elephant in the room with the exchange rates for the various plans are the deductibles and co-pays.

It appears that the way they got the monthly rates down was to raise the deductibles and co-pays to really unbelievable levels (think around $4500).

That means that if I had bought one of those policies for the last five years of my life, it would have paid exactly "zero" of my medical expenses, while I was having to pay for the coverage.

I don't think young, relatively healthy, people, are going to be too excited when they find that out.
Neither are us old guys. I have a policy that has a 10,000.00 ded. It has never paid anything as you could easily guess. And it costs a grand a month.

I just can't stand it anymore.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:23   #201
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Is that 37% the Federal tax bracket? If so, I'm not surprised at the premium because you are probable outside the income levels the law was designed to help.
That is right. Almost all nurses will fall into that category. Also known as wealth distribution. The subsidies are paid by...........................you know........................taxes. Taa Daa!
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:31   #202
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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That is right. Almost all nurses will fall into that category. Also known as wealth distribution. The subsidies are paid by...........................you know........................taxes. Taa Daa!
Yes, every tax is now money taken from the just righteous talented gifted and splendid and "given" to "those" people.

thanks for being such a patriot.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:31   #203
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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That's not really a question about healthcare, but rather one about basic governance since MANY different groups are treated differently through just about every part of society.

The tax code provides the very poor AND the very rich, tax credits AND exemptions which are not available to me. Americans over 65 are allowed to enroll in Medicare, but I am not. Americans under 21 can serve their country in the services, but can't drink. Groups are, and have always been, treated differently in this country. That's always been the norm. Not saying it's right, but it is what's always been the norm.
Yes, I agree that it has always been the norm but the ACA was touted as being different. It is supposed to be transformational. Fundamental change and all that.

Don't forget that ACA is in addition to what the private sector and federal government provide their workers. Those plans can be subsidized for any amount up 100%. Private insurance is still here.


Under the new law employers cannot subsidize premiums for those that go on ACA. This was deliberate as the fear was that employers would simply drop their employee coverage which would force their workers onto the exchanges. If they subsidized the premiums it would still be a much better deal for employers as they would eliminate all of their own overhead associated with providing health care.



So, for the above reasons, employers are not allowed to subsidize exchange premiums under the new law. Congress apparently has realized that this also applies to them so there is a proposal to exempt them from that part of the law. i. e. give themselves and their staffers special treatment. The justification was even advanced that staffers arenít paid that much and couldnít afford the increased exchange cost that would result even with the tax credits and subsidies. Make of this what you will.


For now Congress, their staffers and Federal workers can simply keep what they already have but there are bills being proposed that will require them to go on the exchanges. If that happens, Congress wants the special treatment stated above.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:34   #204
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Huge chunks of health care are already covered by taxes in the US. Hospitals are subsidized by tax dollars.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:34   #205
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Ok, so this isn't political.

In countries that have single payer, that's the nice thing, you just pay your taxes. And go to the doctor.

My first hand experience is in NZ. There are no special healtcare tax or monthly payment which ends up feeling like a screw job. You also don't have to worry about anyone deciding not to get coverage.

Now there are plenty of issues with all health systems, but when you look at the total amount of money the US spends on healtcare there is more than enough money being spent to give every American the VERY best care.

the problem for any approach is breaking the medical industrial complex we've built up. No doubt half those big yachts they can't build fast enough belong to implant CEOs, insurance CEOs, pharma, etc, etc

Again, there's no reason why we shouldn't have the best care and we already spend the money. but it's hard as hell to come up with a system when only 1/2 of the people are willing to try to fix the problem. and the other 1/2 spend literally billions to fight it.
You got a point there.

But you left out the ones who pass the laws that are exempt and are fed by the others.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:34   #206
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Yes, every tax is now money taken from the just righteous talented gifted and splendid and "given" to "those" people.

thanks for being such a patriot.
Isn't it about time for you to move on? You have made it very clear what your ideology is on this issue.

Your predictable ranting is tiresome and unproductive.

Personal attacks contribute nothing to any discussion.
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:41   #207
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Yes, I agree that it has always been the norm but the ACA was touted as being different. It is supposed to be transformational. Fundamental change and all that.

.
EVERY NEW program or service touts itself as something special. That's good ole American marketing at work. When Apple tells me an "IPad will change my entire way of relating to media", now hand over $750; I take it all with a grain of salt. I learned a long time ago that salesmen sell, and politicians are ALL salesmen (usually of the used car variety )
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:42   #208
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Isn't it about time for you to move on? You have made it very clear what your ideology is on this issue.

Your predictable ranting is tiresome and unproductive.

Personal attacks contribute nothing to any discussion.
So since you're with him and his talk of how the nurses are the new wealthy to have their taxes destributed. You're ok with his untrue statements?
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:43   #209
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Re: ACA/Obamacare for American Cruisers Abroad MERGED THREADS

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Huge chunks of health care are already covered by taxes in the US. Hospitals are subsidized by tax dollars.
how so?
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Old 01-10-2013, 17:45   #210
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You got a point there. But you left out the ones who pass the laws that are exempt and are fed by the others.
Not really. Federal employees will have to select coverage using the ACA marketplace. They continue to have healthcare coverage as a co pay to the program. Like many employees that co pay. Except they are required to use the ACA marketplace to choose their plan.
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