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Old 17-11-2013, 15:29   #121
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
So in the end we have established that from now on when a newbie asks about getting and boat to go sailing off into the the sunset the answers should never use the phase "get a simple boat"!

which was the whole point
No ... as Adelie and DOJ have said, the message through this thread is that "simple" is in the eyes of each boat owner. There is much collective wisdom here on CF, but too often people fall into the "my way is the best way" approach. There is rarely only one right answer when it comes to the complexities of sailing and cruising.

This is true of most things in life.
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Old 17-11-2013, 15:41   #122
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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No ... as Adelie and DOJ have said, the message through this thread is that "simple" is in the eyes of each boat owner. There is much collective wisdom here on CF, but too often people fall into the "my way is the best way" approach. There is rarely only one right answer when it comes to the complexities of sailing and cruising.

This is true of most things in life.

exactly, so when a newbie asks no individual CF should go on the "simple" advice campaign as that is meaningless


you just agreed
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Old 17-11-2013, 15:58   #123
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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exactly, so when a newbie asks no individual CF should go on the "simple" advice campaign as that is meaningless


you just agreed
Yes, just like giving ANY absolute, single recommendation out of context is meaningless. Which is why I (and many others on CF) shy away from prescriptive responses, and try and stick to descriptive explanations.
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Old 17-11-2013, 16:07   #124
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Not looking to argue. But I am still waiting for the description of the "simple" boat that certain members seem to always recommend for new cruisers.

And the members who I've read the "advise" from the past 6 tears have posted on this thread and haven't provided a meaning.
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Old 17-11-2013, 17:21   #125
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Not looking to argue. But I am still waiting for the description of the "simple" boat that certain members seem to always recommend for new cruisers.

And the members who I've read the "advise" from the past 6 tears have posted on this thread and haven't provided a meaning.
Post #33 indicated what a complex boat would include and #79 point blank indicated what would be simple. How much more of a definition are you looking for?
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Old 17-11-2013, 17:22   #126
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

One over-simple answer: A Laser dinghy is a simple boat. A Moth is not. Both are dinghies.

A lot of newbies come to making questions as if buying a sailboat were like buying an SUV, and sailing, similar to off road travel. While there are some similarities, cruising just isn't like any land-based activity.

A simple boat has sails, keel, rudder, and will take good care of you; it may have no electronic gear whatsoever. We have some friends who did add one complexity: a depth sounder; and they circumavigated that boat.

However, that is not an option for most people, so the boats get complex systems added to them, to individual taste, which somebody has to maintain, and unless one is pretty wealthy, that winds up being the skipper and first mate. Knowing how much effort can be spent maintaining complex systems leads some of the more experienced among us to exhort people to keep it simple, meaning not to add unnecessary to them complexity, to first learn the boat, then with some real world knowledge, add only the complexities that matter to them.

Perhaps you could ask the individuals by PM that you have in mind, that haven't responded, what they mean when they say to keep it simple.

Ann
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Old 17-11-2013, 17:33   #127
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Post #33 indicated what a complex boat would include and #79 point blank indicated what would be simple. How much more of a definition are you looking for?
I just posed a question and am not really looking for anything!

But I'm impressed at your note taking, even though I'm not going back to look at the 2 be all posts.
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Old 17-11-2013, 17:54   #128
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

A simple boat is not a sailboat. Sails are one the most complex things on a boat, very difficult to use, easy to damage, huge amount of parts needed.
A row boat is a simple boat.



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Old 17-11-2013, 19:01   #129
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Not looking to argue. But I am still waiting for the description of the "simple" boat that certain members seem to always recommend for new cruisers.

And the members who I've read the "advise" from the past 6 tears have posted on this thread and haven't provided a meaning.
You asked "So what does a "complex" boat have that a "simple" doesn't and what are people really willing to do without to have a "simple" cruiser." You've been given clear answers, yet now you say you're "not really looking for anything!"

You seem to be fighting a ghost, or perhaps a rhetorical straw man. If you've got a beef with individual members, why not pose it to them directly. Otherwise you just seem to be trolling here for your own amusement. Is this so?
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Old 17-11-2013, 19:13   #130
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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But I'm impressed at your note taking, even though I'm not going back to look at the 2 be all posts.
It seems like you are mocking me for paying attention to what myself and others have said and for even having said what we did.
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Old 17-11-2013, 19:29   #131
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Simple vs Complex....
Well like everything in cruising that definition changes based on the crew. Specifically, I would say the crews ability to maintain the ships systems. What is "complex" to one person may be a piece of cake to fix and work on to another.

Almost every boat show I attend at least one "cruiser in planning" will ask me if they can control my water maker from their Iphone, IPad, or over the internet. I have given up in trying to expain to them why the don't want that and just send them to the competition. Now that is what I call TOO Complex!

Too Complex to me is an intergrated GPS and Radar...I like seperate systems so when one dies (not if but when) I don't lose it all.

Too Complex to me is connecting the autopilt to the wind instrument to the GPS...really? On a passage you have too much to do where you need that feature and pay extra for it? I've seen cruisers wait in port for weeks for a part to get that very system up and running...no joke.

This complexity (in addition to costing money) gives people the "I can't leave yet paralysis" so a big factor behind those saying "keep is simple" is knowing how much of the **** you think you need....you really don't
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Old 17-11-2013, 22:36   #132
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Telling someone what to do does not provide a basis to understanding so the person can make a reasoned choice for themselves which is what I think most people are really seeking.
I have a feeling you have not been following CF closely .
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Old 17-11-2013, 22:42   #133
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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I have a feeling you have not been following CF closely .
You would think my chosen profession would make me more cynical, but no I continue to think the best of people. A failing I constantly fight to overcome.
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Old 18-11-2013, 00:01   #134
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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If I had Bill Gates' disposable income
I'd have the sturdiest 27-foot hull,
the best manual windlass,
Perko lamps,
and a junk rig.

Bliss.
After my own heart

Simplicity is knowing what you want, and not always wanting more. IMHO

My idea of a simple boat is one that you own, know well, and can self-insure.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:31   #135
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

How about this:

A simple boat is one where you yourself can repair EVERY system or part of the boat with skills you possess, and with tools and materials that you carry on board.

Damn few of us cruisers can meet that criterion!

Jim
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