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Old 14-11-2013, 11:38   #91
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Based on our observations, this is the case. There are however, single off departures, each way.
No doubt there are outliers either way. That's why I absolutely never state anything in terms of absolutes . There are always exceptions when it comes to human behaviour.
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Old 14-11-2013, 13:41   #92
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post

If you live a luxurious life on shore, it's very likely you'll bring these needs (and values) to your life on a boat.
On the flip side, those with simple boats who still have a land home probably have:

- running water
- a flushing toilet
- hot water on demand that 99% of the time lasts as long as they want it
- heat and air conditioning controlled by a thermostat
- a microwave
- electric power that uses move power in a month than the boat in a year
- TV and internet
- if they have a garage for their car it probably has an door opener with a remote control
- if the place is big enough, a clothes washer and dryer
- a dishwasher
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Old 14-11-2013, 13:59   #93
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
- running water
- a flushing toilet
- hot water on demand that 99% of the time lasts as long as they want it
- heat and air conditioning controlled by a thermostat
- a microwave
- electric power that uses move power in a month than the boat in a year
- TV and internet
- if they have a garage for their car it probably has an door opener with a remote control
- if the place is big enough, a clothes washer and dryer
- a dishwasher
Ashore, almost half of that list would be required by code in most jurisdictions so simple doesn't enter into it.

Overall circumstances ashore are different so the frame of reference should be different. Moving aboard a boat with all the basic conveniences you had ashore doesn't mean you are on a basic or simple boat. Neither does it mean you are
leading a luxurious existence afloat (well, if you have a stewardess then yes you are.
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Old 14-11-2013, 16:01   #94
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
On the flip side, those with simple boats who still have a land home probably have:

- running water
- a flushing toilet
- hot water on demand that 99% of the time lasts as long as they want it
- heat and air conditioning controlled by a thermostat
- a microwave
- electric power that uses move power in a month than the boat in a year
- TV and internet
- if they have a garage for their car it probably has an door opener with a remote control
- if the place is big enough, a clothes washer and dryer
- a dishwasher
Yes ... OK ... I think many of the items you list would still be part of a "simple" land home, at least in most western countries. But I'm not really clear what you're saying. Are you suggesting that life afloat does not reflect life ashore (and vice versa)? Are you, like Evans, saying people do, or should, behave differently when they live on a boat vs land home?

I'm just not clear what you're trying to illustrate.
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Old 14-11-2013, 16:50   #95
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Mike,

Earlier on, you said you'd ditch your fridge when it wore out. And I checked, yes, you live north of 45 deg. N. If your cruising takes you deep into the tropics, you may tire of evaporation-cooling attempts. At least we did. Also, there's the pickle it or throw it away of the remainder of tonights lovely pelagic fish. We kill them; and it seemed wrong to me to not eat all of him, but there's so much to pickle. What if there aren't enough jars? and so on. We eventuallly put real refrigeration on after we discovered how much (relative to the cost of the fridge) we were spending on ice! However, we had then and have now, no ice making capability (that takes a lot more energy); we just plan ahead, and if we want gin and tonic, then there has to be room made to chill the tonic. Of course, one can always drink rum and lime at room/bilge temperature. The warmer realms make different demands on us. YMMV We have Canadian friends from BC who circumavigated leisurely without refrigeration, and I never thought anything missing from their hospitality. So, for sure it can be done without, and done well.
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Old 14-11-2013, 17:04   #96
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

To everybody,

This is really so individual, it's amazing to me. And it surely is about needs vs. wants. At bottom, our needs are simple: water, food, shelter, sleep, clothing (maybe). Eskimos need clothing; perhaps Polynesians did not. See how stern I am?

But do you know what I did? Long about the time I was 68 yrs. old, I got this bug in my bonnet that I wanted "nicer" sheets. And I bought luxury percale sheets (for the boat, our only home.) And I still love 'em. They feel so nice when I slide into bed. They didn't pill like the cheapo ones I used to buy; they're holding up very well, and I'm happy as a clam at high tide with 'em. Not easy to reconcile with "simple life style" for me...and yet, all they are is bed sheets. Not nearly as silly as fashion clothing, for instance. Talk about learned needs...

I guess one issue for me is that the higher on the hog you live, the greater the share of limited resources you use. Where does the responsible person draw the line? Only something to ponder, as I believe it's a question whose answer would bring no consensus, and ultimately, one must decide for him or herself...

Just my two cents'.

Ann
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:32   #97
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

20 years ago, I spent two years cruising through the Caribbean on an old CSY 33. It was fairly simple by today's standards. I plan to go again, and after a variety of smaller boats over the years, bought an EndeavourCat 36 last spring. This boat is far fancier than we need, but it has one feature that is very hard to find, and very important to us: it has adequate headroom for a 6'8" man, my husband!

I do enjoy the doodads, I admit. But the electric head is incredibly noisy and uses fresh water at an alarming rate. So I will install a composting head before next summer. I'll save the old head just in case I hate dealing with urine bottles. There is a very complex charging gizmo thing which is going to be deep-sixed very soon, as well -- it uses about 1/2 amp all the time. All the time! At the dock, I have to stay plugged in with the battery charger switched on all the time just to feed the charge distributor. That is crazy. I notice they don't sell that thing anymore.

The jury is out on the diesel generator. If it is too much trouble to maintain, I would be fine with the Honda portable we now use to run our boiler at home when storms knock out our power. The new LED lights use almost nothing; such a great improvement compared to 20 years ago.

If I were still single, I would have a smaller, simpler boat. So maybe the complexity comes in when you are accommodating the needs of two people instead of one.
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Old 14-11-2013, 18:42   #98
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

My idea of a simple boat. . .

1) Tiller
2) No Windvane, someone can stand watch
3) No windlass, shanghai some drunks
4) Square cotton sails
5) Hemp lines or chain
6) Lead weight depth finder. trailing knot line
7) Oil lamps, solid fuel cook stove. Harpoon ok.
8) No toilette. Aft seat for doing your business overboard.
9) paper (or no) charts, sextant, and mechanical clock.
9) no gortex, use wool and oilskin.
10) no engines. dinghy with oars ok.
11) no epirb, emergency lights, LEDs, PFDs, VHF, no batteries.
12) no icebox
13) No berths, sleep in hammocks (you'll need the room for the drunks)
... oh I almost forgot... No Fiberglass!
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Old 14-11-2013, 19:31   #99
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkindredpdx View Post
My idea of a simple boat. . .

1) Tiller
2) No Windvane, someone can stand watch
3) No windlass, shanghai some drunks
4) Square cotton sails
5) Hemp lines or chain
6) Lead weight depth finder. trailing knot line
7) Oil lamps, solid fuel cook stove. Harpoon ok.
8) No toilette. Aft seat for doing your business overboard.
9) paper (or no) charts, sextant, and mechanical clock.
9) no gortex, use wool and oilskin.
10) no engines. dinghy with oars ok.
11) no epirb, emergency lights, LEDs, PFDs, VHF, no batteries.
12) no icebox
13) No berths, sleep in hammocks (you'll need the room for the drunks)
... oh I almost forgot... No Fiberglass!
I agree with your list but I think fiberglass is much more "simple" than wood as it is of one part vs many cobbled together.

Maybe a fiberglass Cat rig would be the most simple boat. Put a sculling oar on the back for an no wind locomotion.
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Old 14-11-2013, 20:23   #100
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Everything on a boat needs maintenance.

My log includes each and every system. Some need daily, weekly, monthly, annual, by annual, every 5 and every ten. Log it and do it.

Then you never have a break down caused by deferred maintenance.

Don't forget the ADMIRAL, they require all of the above, but don't forget the hourly maintenance.

Lloyd
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Old 14-11-2013, 20:48   #101
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Mike,

Earlier on, you said you'd ditch your fridge when it wore out. And I checked, yes, you live north of 45 deg. N. If your cruising takes you deep into the tropics, you may tire of evaporation-cooling attempts. At least we did. ... The warmer realms make different demands on us. YMMV We have Canadian friends from BC who circumavigated leisurely without refrigeration, and I never thought anything missing from their hospitality. So, for sure it can be done without, and done well.
Quite right Ann, I may find refridgeration becomes indispensable the further south we go. I do know how to keep many foods without cooling, but I dearly love my cold beer. And who knows ... by the time I get as far south as 45 deg. N. I'll may be begging for the A/C .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Long about the time I was 68 yrs. old, I got this bug in my bonnet that I wanted "nicer" sheets. And I bought luxury percale sheets (for the boat, our only home.) And I still love 'em.
OK ... I had to look up percale sheets -- sounds "simple" to me. Acquiring something of quality that will last for a long time is better, more reliable and less damaging to the ecosystem than buying a crap item that you have to replace frequently. No conundrum there. Makes perfect sense. I gotta get me some of those sheets .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
I guess one issue for me is that the higher on the hog you live, the greater the share of limited resources you use. Where does the responsible person draw the line? Only something to ponder, as I believe it's a question whose answer would bring no consensus, and ultimately, one must decide for him or herself.
I think of this question in terms of having enough. What is enough? When do I have enough? When I have enough I can draw my own lines around reasonable resource use. But it's almost a nonsensical question in our capitalist consumerist societies these days. To have enough -- to stop constantly wanting more -- is close to heretical. No one is allowed to think in these terms without being branded a socialist, a communist, or worst still, an environmentalist.

There is no right answer, and g-d knows I don't want to open a discussion about it here. I only have answers for me (and these answers constantly change ). But by accepting limits, it is possible to live, and therefore to cruise, simply.
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Old 14-11-2013, 21:40   #102
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

In my view, the number one most important thing above all else is that a boat floats.
So the number one most important thing to do is have No Holes in the Hulls.
This requires major changes in almost all boat designs.
No inboards with prop shafts.
No saildrives with drive holes.
No spade rudders with shafts.
No inboard cooling water">engine cooling water intakes.
No head intakes. No underwater drains.

So essentially in some form, outboard drives, transom rudders, keel coolers,
and pumped water intake. These things can make a boat less simple,
but does not make it more reliable for what matters.
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Old 14-11-2013, 23:25   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Garbone View Post
I agree with your list but I think fiberglass is much more "simple" than wood as it is of one part vs many cobbled together. Maybe a fiberglass Cat rig would be the most simple boat. Put a sculling oar on the back for an no wind locomotion.
... dugout made from a single tree. Problem with fiberglass is you can't cook up resin from natural ingredients when you're stranded on an island. Hmmmm. Maybe lateen sails made from spun tree bark fiber or animal hides. L
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Old 15-11-2013, 06:23   #104
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
On the flip side, those with simple boats who still have a land home probably have:

(...)(...)
Yep.

But on the flop side, if we were to imitate our land homes, then why go sailing in the first place?

b.
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Old 15-11-2013, 06:31   #105
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Yep.

But on the flop side, if we were to imitate our land homes, then why go sailing in the first place?

b.

To get to different places of course. The only reason I got interested in sailing was as a way to afford to travel more.
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