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Old 13-11-2013, 13:47   #76
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Yup .

As I said earlier, my first step towards having a "simple boat," or indeed a simple life, is to understand my wants vs my needs. Everyone will have different answers here -- and that's OK. For me, I find it worth remembering that much of our capitalist economy is built on turning wants into (percieved) needs. The act of living small is a great way to bring this reality to light.
Well said Mike.
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Old 13-11-2013, 16:58   #77
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Imagine two identical boats of modest size with a modest number of electrical and mechanical devices. One boat has seasonal use and is kept on a summer mooring and winterized for half the year. The owner travels from his home to maintain and to use the boat. The equipment on the boat sits idle for months at a time and requires revival as each sailing season begins. The other identical boat is cruised year 'round and the owner lives aboard with no other home. None of the equipment is left idle and the opprtunity for maintenance an observation is always at hand.

One is complex and one is simple.
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Old 13-11-2013, 17:19   #78
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
... Taking the other tack (at some risk) I list the complex stuff one doesn't really need on a modest size (40 ft or smaller), non-long term cruising, vacation boat/day sailing. I would list
1. Heat pump(s)
2. Pressure water
3. Hot water
4. Auto pilot
5. Chart plotter (use handheld for harbors)
6. Battery monitoring computer (use expanded volt meter)
7. Anchor windlass
8. WIFI
9. SSB/satphone
10. Electric head
11. Refrigeration (use icebox)
12. Power assisted sail handling
13. AIS (use radar)
14. bow thruster
15. sound system
16. generator

This is just my opinion, btw.
Funny and I thought I was living pretty simple with:
2. Pressure water ... DC pump & hand pumps
3. Hot water ......... AC & diesel engine heated, not always "hot"
4. Auto pilot .......... Autohelm 4000
7. Anchor windlass .. Manual SL
8. WIFI ................. Couldn't make a living without it
11. Refrigeration ..... AC/DC.. but no Ice really
15. Sound system ... Wireless bluetooth speaker(?)

Plus:
A. Solar Panels
B. 20" diagonal flat PC monitor for Nav & movies
C. OpenCPN w/ GPS
D. Radar
E. Propane Cooktop w/ oven

I really can't imagine living aboard (North of the 45 parallel) without these basics...
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Old 13-11-2013, 22:44   #79
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Simple boat

1) Tiller
2) Windvane plus small tiller autopilot
3) Manual windlass, or none at all, just a chain pawl.
4) Hanked on sails
5) Drifter for light air, no CodeZero.
6) No spinnaker for downwind
7) Dacron sails except drifter,
8) Dacron lines except anchor line and mooring lines
9) External halyards
10) Deptho, knot/log, magnetic compass. No other electronic instruments.
11) No SSB or Satphone
12) Laptop chart plotter running OpenCPN or SeaClear
13) All instruments separate, no data buss.
14) 3-5hp outboard for dinghy, maybe
15) Hard dinghy
16) Battery Hydrometer
17) Simple volt meter
18) Golf cart batteries
19) Solar panels
20) No generator
21) No refer, no icebox
22) Propane stove w/ oven
23) Manual toilette
24) Diesel heater
25) Dodger only, no bimini
26) Windscoop and dorades for ventilation, maybe fans
27) Manual fresh water
28) Water tanks, no watermaker

This is a start to how I would define simple. It is not how I would outfit my own boat.
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Old 13-11-2013, 23:38   #80
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Simple boat

1) Tiller
2) Windvane plus small tiller autopilot
3) Manual windlass, or none at all, just a chain pawl.
4) Hanked on sails
...

This is a start to how I would define simple. It is not how I would outfit my own boat.
Geeze Adelie, I'm 25 for 28 on your list. Not sure if this is a good sign . Guess it means I'm simple .

Actually, I would substitute a hand-held GPS for your laptop chart plotter -- far more reliable. And I also have a windmill along with solar to generate power.
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Old 14-11-2013, 05:06   #81
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post

(...)

This is a start to how I would define simple.

(...)
Defining things tends to make them more complex by definition. ;-)

Or not?

Only 28 things to go wrong. Good try!

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Old 14-11-2013, 05:25   #82
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

We have written a bit about this. We clearly fall on the very simple end if the scale.

Our take . . .

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Leftoff.pdf

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/SimpleBoatsystem.pdf

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/tenBiggerboat.pdf
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Old 14-11-2013, 06:26   #83
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

To get simple boat I think the key is to start with........

.........a simple sailor (of needs!).

If you ain't one of those then won't get a simple boat.
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Old 14-11-2013, 06:46   #84
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

[QUOTE=David_Old_Jersey;1390440]To get simple boat I think the key is to start with........

.........a simple sailor (of needs!).

If you ain't one of those then won't get a simple boat.[/QUOTE

In the world of simple it sounds that David has the world covered




sorry couldn't really pass it up
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Old 14-11-2013, 07:58   #85
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
To get simple boat I think the key is to start with.................a simple sailor (of needs!).

If you ain't one of those then won't get a simple boat.
I think there's a strong parallel here with the constant question, What does it costs to cruise? The most common answer is: "It costs what you have," or put another way, "if you spend a lot on land, you'll spend a lot on the water ... and vice versa."

If you live a luxurious life on shore, it's very likely you'll bring these needs (and values) to your life on a boat. Why wouldn't you? Most people don't approach cruising as some sort of heroic Outward Bound adventure. It's an evolution of the life they are living. If that life is full of complex systems, I bet their boat will be as well ... and vice versa.
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Old 14-11-2013, 08:08   #86
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Actually, I would substitute a hand-held GPS for your laptop chart plotter -- far more reliable. And I also have a windmill along with solar to generate power.
I waffled a bit about the laptop, and I should have said with raster charts. In a different world I would have said paper charts, but since NOAA is phasing out paper, it is going to become harder to get hold of them. A waterproof hand held with built in maps would also work, but those small screens are not really adequate to work on and the vector charts loose too much detail when you zoom out. An example of this was the wreck of the boat racing from Newport to Ensenada just south of San Diego. Zoomed out, the Coronado Islands just south of San Diego did not show up well or perhaps at all on the vector charts and they hit something in the middle of the night. Even zoomed out raster charts show outlying dangers.

I left windmills off for the reason that solar panels have no moving parts so no maintenance and no safety issues. Depending on circumstances panels are a lot easier to mount. In certain places and situations windmills would be appropriate, but they are not really as simple.
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:08   #87
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I think there's a strong parallel here with the constant question, What does it costs to cruise? The most common answer is: "It costs what you have," or put another way, "if you spend a lot on land, you'll spend a lot on the water ... and vice versa."

If you live a luxurious life on shore, it's very likely you'll bring these needs (and values) to your life on a boat. Why wouldn't you? Most people don't approach cruising as some sort of heroic Outward Bound adventure. It's an evolution of the life they are living. If that life is full of complex systems, I bet their boat will be as well ... and vice versa.

Actually that's exactly NOT true for me.

When I go to sea, I become a seaman with seaman's values and expectations . . . I look to live a simple life, aiming for experience, challenge and accomplishment while giving up comfort and luxury. Ashore I deal with complex business problems and complex systems and have "stuff" and luxury.

It's one of the things I most value about cruising . . . It's a fundamentally different way of life (for me).

And I think(just my opinion) people are making a serious mistake when they try to take their shore lifestyle to sea. . . . Both because they are missing an opportunity to see and experience a different way of life, and because that lifestyle is much more difficult to maintain and fits less well with sea life.
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Old 14-11-2013, 10:35   #88
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
To get simple boat I think the key is to start with........

.........a simple sailor (of needs!).

If you ain't one of those then won't get a simple boat.
+1!

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Old 14-11-2013, 10:38   #89
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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(...)

If you live a luxurious life on shore, it's very likely you'll bring these needs (and values) to your life on a boat.

(...)
Based on our observations, this is the case. There are however, single off departures, each way.

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Old 14-11-2013, 11:21   #90
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Actually that's exactly NOT true for me.

When I go to sea, I become a seaman with seaman's values and expectations . . . I look to live a simple life, aiming for experience, challenge and accomplishment while giving up comfort and luxury. Ashore I deal with complex business problems and complex systems and have "stuff" and luxury.
I'm sure you do this Evans, but the fact is that most people do not easily change their behaviour or their values. In fact, I doubt that most people would want to change. After all, for most people, going to sea is not therapy. It's an extension of a life.

There's lots of research that shows that most people change when they have no other choice. We are who we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
And I think(just my opinion) people are making a serious mistake when they try to take their shore lifestyle to sea. . . . Both because they are missing an opportunity to see and experience a different way of life, and because that lifestyle is much more difficult to maintain and fits less well with sea life.
I guess this goes to motivation for why one goes to sea. Clearly, not everyone shares your reasons. For me, living on a small and simple boat is a watery extension of how I have lived for the past 15 years. It's another way to learn, to explore, and live somewhat more in harmony with the planet. Mostly, it's about freedom -- that's what a simple boat offers me.
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