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Old 12-11-2013, 14:25   #61
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You can have it both ways. But having a genset and watermaker can make the boat truly self sufficient for extended voyages. During the four months of cruising we rarely if ever come in to a marina, instead prefering to anchor. While at anchor, the genset and watermaker are turned on for an hour a day, other than that... It's the simple life with few needs. I fix and maintain the systems myself in my copious free time at anchor when I'm not napping or listening to tunes on the ipad. The repairs can also be done whilst drinking beer.
A watermaker is:
- a hp pump, a membrane, some pipes,

A genset is:
- a combustion engine, a dynamo, some belts and wires,

Simplicity is not in having techs or lack of such. Simplicity is a vision in our heads.

A boat with a genset and a watermaker will become complex, if sailed by a person who perceives gensets and watermakers as complex.

b.
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Old 12-11-2013, 14:52   #62
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Use the camper for getting to the park and take the rucksack on the day trip to the lake.

Wonder if there is a parallel to cruising?
A mothership + an annexe?

But if you are simple enough not to have a zodiac then you can only swim ashore.

b.
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Old 12-11-2013, 15:45   #63
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
+1!

And when you say camping do you mean a camper van or rather a guy with a rucksack?

b.
I had a 1970s VW squareback and an 1981 Westfalia. The squareback would get me to the trailhead, like a canoe or kayak can get me across a lake. The Westfalia I could sleep and eat in, like my old 22' Catalina... but the VW Van wasn't a Motor-home and my C22 wasn't a cruising boat. I wouldn't want to live in either for months... doesn't mean someone wouldn't.
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Old 12-11-2013, 16:06   #64
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
A watermaker is:
- a hp pump, a membrane, some pipes,

A genset is:
- a combustion engine, a dynamo, some belts and wires,

Simplicity is not in having techs or lack of such. Simplicity is a vision in our heads.

A boat with a genset and a watermaker will become complex, if sailed by a person who perceives gensets and watermakers as complex.

b.

Cheers,
Mac
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Old 12-11-2013, 16:35   #65
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
A watermaker is:
- a hp pump, a membrane, some pipes,

A genset is:
- a combustion engine, a dynamo, some belts and wires,

Simplicity is not in having techs or lack of such. Simplicity is a vision in our heads.

A boat with a genset and a watermaker will become complex, if sailed by a person who perceives gensets and watermakers as complex.

b.
Complex - in the context of this thread is not technically complex but more toward degrees of freedom to fail and/or maintain. Systems having parts, components, subsystems that tend fail or require regular maintenance.

If I don't have a generator then I don't have to change the oil, change the filters, change the impellor, torque the head, inspect the belts and hoses, clean the water filter, maintain the battery, and then on top of it all fix it when it stops working.
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Old 12-11-2013, 17:51   #66
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Cruising = Values Clarification .

I think that many here feel that cruising allows escape from much that modern life in the first world has lost and that they are seeking the freedom and connection to an elementary world with real and deeper values. I am one of them, and consequently my boat is "simple "by design. I want to be able to go an partake of this other world without constraint. There is VERY little that will keep me from my appointed rounds with my simple approach.
Others here may claim that they too want to get "back to nature"; they just do not want to go there on foot!

..........................love you all........................mike................... .......
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Old 12-11-2013, 20:11   #67
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

A bit of a different take here....simple means it can be single handed for extended periods.

Thus wind vane and AP make it a "simple" boat.

Adding crew adds complexity because you have to deal with the damned intractable beasts.

I love my Wife and love sailing with her. However I never relax as fully when she is aboard, I just worry too much. Having her aboard makes things "complex" for me, but it is worth the effort.

Having more than just her aboard makes me nervous as all get out.

So for me things that make the boat simple include
AIS
Radar
AP
wind vane
Electric windlass
Vang preventer or boom break
Fridge ....don't need to chase ice

I seem to use very little water by myself. Add crew and water usage skyrockets.

But I think the single biggest thing to make a boat simple is TIME. if you've got time you've got options. Life is simple. Got a schedule? Then you quickly run outta options. And the more crew you have the more likely someone's gotta be somewhere else.
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Old 12-11-2013, 23:35   #68
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I don't know what boat size has to do with this list
And here I was,
thinking how very relevant boat size is :=)

When things get too large or heavy to handle readily
we are obliged to increase complexity to deal with it.
Aside from the daily stuff
like needing a windlass on a 50-footer,
there's the maintenance.
My 27-footer with it's broad, full-keeled foot
means scrubbing and painting without cranes or boatyards.

If I had Bill Gates' disposable income
I'd have the sturdiest 27-foot hull,
the best manual windlass,
Perko lamps,
and a junk rig.

Bliss.
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Old 12-11-2013, 23:43   #69
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Don't have commercial TV reception in my house either as it tends to spoil the life experience.
Hear, hear!
One of the best unread books of our time,
Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television
by Jerry Mander.

Oh, how about this?
I used Google to find Mander's first name
and I see multiple links for downloading a pdf copy of the book.
Nice.
I recommend it highly.
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Old 13-11-2013, 07:38   #70
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
If I don't have a generator then I don't have to change the oil, change the filters, change the impellor, torque the head, inspect the belts and hoses, clean the water filter, maintain the battery, and then on top of it all fix it when it stops working.

Correct.

But then maybe you don't have refrigeration or electric cooking or AC or anything like that when at anchor. Or maybe instead you haul ice, argue with an alchohol stove, or can be at peace in 95F heat with 98% humidity. (examples only)

That can be good for some, other's may prefer the additional amenities a genset can support... especially those who prefer ice in their mojitos

FWIW, so far we've changed the oil and oil filter, fuel filter, on our genset once/year... the impeller every two years... and early this season replaced the drive belt and water pump (on it's 11th year). Not exactly a maintenance hog.

But I'm not recommending folks have/need a genset; just recognizing that there are trade-offs to evaluate.

And would also submit for those who want a genset, that installation location and resulting 360 access to the thing -- much more so than the actual generator itself -- can make it "simpler" (easier to service) or more "complex" (a major pain in the a$$).

-Chris
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Old 13-11-2013, 08:40   #71
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

there are lots of things that are nice to have but not actually necessary. to quote that minimalist thoreau, 'we want more than we need'.

i really can't tell you what i don't have because i've never had it. but i did toss out a broken built in gps and replace it with a couple of hand helds. do all i need, have redundancy in case of failure, and take little space.
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Old 13-11-2013, 09:15   #72
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

The cost of a proper gen set installation , extra tankage, extra wiring, etc,etc, can easily equal a years cruising budget. And then when it is installed, you will buy the comfort things that needed the 115/220 volt generator in the first place. Probably another years worth of a cruisers budget. If you have deep pockets it wont matter. If you dont have deep pockets, then you may have to make decisions about comfort vs not being able to go cruising at all. It is all a compromise ._______Grant.
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Old 13-11-2013, 09:17   #73
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
there are lots of things that are nice to have but not actually necessary. to quote that minimalist thoreau, 'we want more than we need'.
Yup .

As I said earlier, my first step towards having a "simple boat," or indeed a simple life, is to understand my wants vs my needs. Everyone will have different answers here -- and that's OK. For me, I find it worth remembering that much of our capitalist economy is built on turning wants into (percieved) needs. The act of living small is a great way to bring this reality to light.
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Old 13-11-2013, 09:25   #74
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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The cost of a proper gen set installation , extra tankage, extra wiring, etc,etc, can easily equal a years cruising budget. And then when it is installed, you will buy the comfort things that needed the 115/220 volt generator in the first place. Probably another years worth of a cruisers budget. If you have deep pockets it wont matter. If you dont have deep pockets, then you may have to make decisions about comfort vs not being able to go cruising at all. It is all a compromise ._______Grant.
You must cruise on the cheap.

You would likely claim we don't have a proper installation but we only have around $1500 into our generator and I can't think of an AC appliance that we added after getting it.

It is a portable Yamaha in an enclosure on the back deck but 5 yrs later still works fine for the occasional night out.

When we have the option to anchor out comfortably in expensive areas, it's not hard to save $70-100/night. 3-4 weeks of anchoring out pays for the generator even after accounting for fuel usage.

If you want the equivilent of backing more power to you. We've done it in our younger days and it's fun for a few days but gets old real quick on a full time basis.
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Old 13-11-2013, 13:35   #75
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
there are lots of things that are nice to have but not actually necessary. to quote that minimalist thoreau, 'we want more than we need'.


Yep. But for many, the whole boat falls right into that "want, not need" category, too

-Chris
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