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Old 03-12-2013, 03:19   #226
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Things I have that make my boat non-simple include:

- no auto pilot needed inland and on the nthsea you need to be at the helm..
- gps/chartplotter systems, great on the laptop for planning which canal to turn onto next...
- pressurized water system, 800watt and motor heated for shower, cooking and washing up...
- a real head, we arent allowed to unload in the water so a holding tank and marina pump out, or porta potty..
-dont have or need a water maker close to shore, had one on a 3 mth surfing charter from Aus to Bali, was fantastic but wow, high maintainence..
- generator seldom used when you have solar panels, but great backup..
- furling sails, had them on all my sail boats.
- anchor windlass, great help for my and my misses back.
- elec battery charger 60amp
- inverter.. runs fridge, boils billy, makes hot water and charges all types of things...

__________________________________-

Before my motorboat I had sailboats, doing deliveries, as skipper en owner.
When delivering a boat you want all the luxuries so long as they work, if they dont have them or they dont work, then you dont miss them ( really?). Delivering a 14mtr cat from Capetown to Granada, it was great having all the mod cons, sailing a new bareboat from sydney to Airlie beach every mth, you didnt need them all but if there you used them.
Now I am semi retired and I have a motorboat and motor along the canals and rivers in holland I have all the mod cons wether I need them or not, why??? because of all the years sailing with the mickey mouse stuff and the few trips without, you really get used to having a fridge with ice cubes for your afternoon scotch, cold prawns, and real milk at breakfast. Hot shower, water to wash up and power on demand when needed.

I dont need them because I could go into a marina every night and plug in, but we dont. We stay on anchor for 3 days at a time, and then you realise that the battery power to run the inverter to run the fridge, the hotwater system, the laptops, the phones, boil the jug instead of turning on the gas, using the electric winch instead of breaking my back to get the anchor up is enormous.
I started out with a 3.7 kva petrol genset running 2 hrs a day to charge the batteries, boil the water and charge the laptops, then we decided to go solar, 2x 120watt and 1 x130watt and that got us back to 30min per day on the genset to help with keeping the batteries above 75%. Now when the sun dont shine what then?, well we decided to put an extra 70 amp alt on the motor and connect the hotwater system to the motor and expand the battery bank from 240 to 480amps. We now use the solar panels if the sun shines and run the main motor for 30 min once or twice a day if it doesnt, that way the motor is run hard for the 30 minuters, gets warm quick and heats the water with both inverter elec and from the motor, charges the battery's and provides 220volt through the invertor to charge the phones and laptops and boil the billy for a cuppa.
Now is this system simple?? I say yes, it is very easy to maintain so long as you have sun or diesel and you built the systems in yourself.
If you didnt build the systems in yourself then NO this is not simple and out at sea near St helena when the autopilot went down,, no, again not simple, and had to hand stear the rest of the way to the carib.
It all depends on your ability to fix, maintain and service the systems you put on your boat. But as you get older you like the mod cons, even tho I have seen people here in a marina shower on the backdeck with cold riverwater because he had done it all his life and wasnt gonna have silly things like hotwater on his boat even with the genset he had built in for the battery charger. So it's up to you, size of boat and places you intend to sail, my delivery days are over, I have sailed the med and the nth sea and am now very happy to have a motorboat with solar panels, genset, fridge, laptops, anchor winch, hot running pressure water and so on. still refuse to put a TV on board, all the entertainment comes from Tablets, phones and laptop movies.
If you got it enjoy it, if you havent, then get it, but learn how to build it in and maintain it yourself as you go, that way you know how to fix it when it breaks...
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:46   #227
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

I think Solar qualifies as Simple. It's pretty low maintenance and sure makes life easier... best addition I made on Sedna.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:22   #228
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by troppo1 View Post
still refuse to put a TV on board, all the entertainment comes from Tablets, phones and laptop movies.
If you got it enjoy it, if you havent, then get it, but learn how to build it in and maintain it yourself as you go, that way you know how to fix it when it breaks...
Everyone draws the line at a different place, it seems.
Mine is a long way from yours,
but I agree with you on the television.
*shudder*

That's a good-looking boat, Troppo.
Nice solar panel installation.

Building your own systems is pure gold.
My daughter and I built our boat,
simplifying where we could
and making each system as failure-proof as possible.
There's nothing on the boat I can't fix,
and very little I can't fix with the parts and tools at hand.
Aside from the GPS and chartplotter, of course,
and losing those is a minor inconvenience.

Our motor home is a different story-
everything on it seems to be a mystery,
necessary but designed to fail and impossible to repair.
I prefer my garden-sprayer shower, which always works,
to an on-demand hot water system which does not.

To me, simplicity *is* luxury.

- Shas
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:31   #229
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkindredpdx View Post
I think Solar qualifies as Simple. It's pretty low maintenance and sure makes life easier... best addition I made on Sedna.
Yes, solar is sweet.
(I can't wait to see it become mainstream on land, too!)
We built our boat with solar in mind from the start,
with LEDs everywhere and minimal electrical loads.
Solar plus LEDs is even simpler than oil and wicks,
though of course we have oil back-up
for system failures and the long spells of rain and fog
we have here in the PNW.

Grandpa Slocum navigated around the world
with a broken wind-up tin clock,
but I bet even he would have had solar
if it had been available
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:44   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas Cho View Post

Everyone draws the line at a different place, it seems.
Mine is a long way from yours,
but I agree with you on the television.
*shudder*

That's a good-looking boat, Troppo.
Nice solar panel installation.

I prefer my garden-sprayer shower, which always works,
to an on-demand hot water system which does not.

To me, simplicity *is* luxury.

- Shas
Thanks Shas, I regulary see 20amps from the panels and keeping them in the sun at anchor is good practice with a mooring line from the aft cleat to the anchor rode. I totaly agree with the garden sprayer. I still shower on the aft swim deck but have to have hot and cold on tap as the minimum. 20 litre boiler and auto pressure 12 vlt pump.
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:19   #231
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by troppo1 View Post
Thanks Shas, I regulary see 20amps from the panels and keeping them in the sun at anchor is good practice with a mooring line from the aft cleat to the anchor rode. I totaly agree with the garden sprayer. I still shower on the aft swim deck but have to have hot and cold on tap as the minimum. 20 litre boiler and auto pressure 12 vlt pump.
My pressure water seems pretty simple... pump, filter, and hose... am I missing something here? I've also seen people comment about complexity of AC & DC onboad, that too seems simple enough. Mine are separate circuits... Are they talking about a more complex configuration or inverters?
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:48   #232
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Originally Posted by jkindredpdx View Post

My pressure water seems pretty simple... pump, filter, and hose... am I missing something here? I've also seen people comment about complexity of AC & DC onboad, that too seems simple enough. Mine are separate circuits... Are they talking about a more complex configuration or inverters?
No not really, but to a lot of people an inverter and AC/DC setup is not simple. Running pipes from the motor to the boiler, to the shower, sink and pump is also not simple. It depends on their level of experience.
I have seen some really complex autostart gensets and just a pullstart 6hp with an alternator on it. It's all relevent.
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Old 03-12-2013, 13:57   #233
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkindredpdx View Post
My pressure water seems pretty simple... pump, filter, and hose... am I missing something here? I've also seen people comment about complexity of AC & DC onboad, that too seems simple enough. Mine are separate circuits... Are they talking about a more complex configuration or inverters?
What!!!...you don't use buckets for water, use lanterns and flashlights? Electricity is the devils work you know.
...as I write this, I am going to take my digital camera and snap some shots of the city down here while riding on my fold up bike. But not until I drink a glass of onboard purified water chilled by my refrigeration to 36 degrees F. Hope everyone is staying warm up there. It's in the 80's here...ok, ok...I'll admit...it does dip into the mid 60's at night.
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Old 03-12-2013, 14:07   #234
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

All in all, the anti engine and anti-convenience people have a point (although weak) about stuff breaks. A few hundred miles ago my battery switch got kicked into the off position while motoring. I eventually fried the diodes in the alternator. So 15 minutes to take out the alternator, 15 minutes to research a business in manana land. 15 more minutes to ride my bike with said unit. The owner of the business spoke Spanglish and we got along very well. He will replace the bearings, diodes and regulator for 500 pesos ($38). The experience was enriching for me.
Just to show everyone what an engine whore I am...if we fall below 2.8 knots...the beast gets fired up. Sometimes when we're doing 3.5 knots but the motion is bad from a following seas, we will fire it up and in idle put it in gear to catch a 1/2 knot more to change the frequency of the effect. so please...feel free to judge me.
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Old 03-12-2013, 14:20   #235
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Al
Just to show everyone what an engine whore I am...if we fall below 2.8 knots...the beast gets fired up. Sometimes when we're doing 3.5 knots but the motion is bad from a following seas, we will fire it up and in idle put it in gear to catch a 1/2 knot more to change the frequency of the effect. so please...feel free to judge me.
Wow 2.8 kn. I lived 6years on a 28ft cat and when we got down to 4 the motor went on to maintain a minimum 6kn. Wasnt often but needed to charge the batteries anyway. Now I have a motorboat that chews too much diesel and makes too much noise at 6 so now I'm a 4.5kn type of guy. How things change. I do miss surfing under kite.
Im those days they didnt have mppt solar regs and I couldnt work out why I kept burning out the battery's.
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Old 03-12-2013, 14:44   #236
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
What!!!...you don't use buckets for water, use lanterns and flashlights? Electricity is the devils work you know.
...as I write this, I am going to take my digital camera and snap some shots of the city down here while riding on my fold up bike. But not until I drink a glass of onboard purified water chilled by my refrigeration to 36 degrees F. Hope everyone is staying warm up there. It's in the 80's here...ok, ok...I'll admit...it does dip into the mid 60's at night.
Thanks Martin of course I can "simply" leave a water bottle in the cockpit overnight. Sunny and 39F up here, frosty deck in the morning, and cozy fire in the cabin. Where are you now? I take it you replaced the Rassy Refrigerator...
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Old 03-12-2013, 14:48   #237
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What!!!...you don't use buckets for water, use lanterns and flashlights? Electricity is the devils work you know.
...as I write this, I am going to take my digital camera and snap some shots of the city down here while riding on my fold up bike. But not until I drink a glass of onboard purified water chilled by my refrigeration to 36 degrees F. Hope everyone is staying warm up there. It's in the 80's here...ok, ok...I'll admit...it does dip into the mid 60's at night.
We have a gas burning central heating kettle that pumps the heated water through copper pipes and mini radiators through out the boat. Built for caravans in the alps during winter. Gets down to 18deg celcius and the thermostat kicks the boiler in and the mini 12vlt pump to circulate the water. Extends our sailing season and is really simple to install and very good on gas and 12vlt.
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Old 03-12-2013, 15:48   #238
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

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Thanks Martin of course I can "simply" leave a water bottle in the cockpit overnight. Sunny and 39F up here, frosty deck in the morning, and cozy fire in the cabin. Where are you now? I take it you replaced the Rassy Refrigerator...
Yup...the Norcold front loader went by the way of the Dodo bird. My refer in the tropics run about 20 minutes an hour, using 1.75 amp. per hour. Up norht it was 1.5amp@hr. It's a top loader now with aerogel and 4"s of pour foam insulation. I'm still in La Paz, getting some dental work down...I know, I know, I should be self-sufficient and use my vice grips to do the job but I believe in supporting the local economy.
Today, all the hatches and posts are open and I have one fan running directly above me. Life's tough.

Quote:
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We have a gas burning central heating kettle that pumps the heated water through copper pipes and mini radiators through out the boat. Built for caravans in the alps during winter. Gets down to 18deg celcius and the thermostat kicks the boiler in and the mini 12vlt pump to circulate the water. Extends our sailing season and is really simple to install and very good on gas and 12vlt.
In Northern Ca. I had a diesel heater in one of my vessels and loved it. This last winter, I had a little space heater that I had cranked all the way at night. Then walking the frosty dock to the car to go to work...ugh!
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:36   #239
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

[QUOTE=Celestialsailor;
In Northern Ca. I had a diesel heater in one of my vessels and loved it. This last winter, I had a little space heater that I had cranked all the way at night. Then walking the frosty dock to the car to go to work...ugh![/QUOTE]

Diesel heaters are the main way to heat boats here in europe, but they are noisy and they tend to have troubles in the winter because they werent run during the summer mths. I have had 2 boats with them and they worked fine.
This boat had the gas burner in it and we thought, no way, gas burner inside the lazzeret, but when we tried it we thought wow, this is the way to go. The 22mm pipes are insulated under the floor and exposed in the toilet to warm the room before coming into the cabin to the Convector radiators, has 1, 2 or 3 burners and a tiny toy car 12vlt motor that just pushes the hot water along and it naturally rises back to the heater through the return line, so very energy efficient. Built for caravans to be put in the gas bun outside. This boat has it's own ventilated lazzeret, exhaust heat goes straight outside and gas bun is also outside. Also it has 3 safety cut offs built in, so very safe and I have been so happy with the damb thing that I collect parts to keep it going for ever. Primus 2450. Set the thermostat in the cabin to what you want and let it run, it turns it's own gas on and off, no pilot flame, takes 10min to warm the cabin to whatever temp we want, also the boat is toatlly insulated with 3in insulation, and winter time only hurts when we have to go outside to raise the anchor, although I do have a wireless remote control built in to the anchor winch for lowering and raising from inside. Simple,,,..
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:36   #240
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Re: A "Simple" Boat

It's currently 23F outside here in the Pacific North West. Diesel heaters are popular here as well. It took a little practice getting it lit and learning the relationship between the air and fuel adjustments.

Between the diesel and the armaflex insulation though, I'm sitting here in a flannel shirt, and wool socks contemplating a hot cup of coffee and an open hatch in the pilot house. Life is indeed good.

I agree with a wireless for the windlass. Tis a marvelous thing.

Simple is, as simple does.
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