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Old 22-06-2010, 07:22   #16
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I disclose my markup for subs and materials in the estimate. It's a flat 10% at the moment. Later it may rise, if we get busy enough to allow it but it will never rise to be unreasonable. Time cost money, the Vendor spent HIS time getting the piece fixed. I think he deserves compensation for that time...
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Old 22-06-2010, 11:01   #17
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quit whinning, pay the bill. you got off cheap. It didnt work before, you didn't have to get your hands dirty and now it works. That's what it's all about. Those who know, make a little money, those who don't, pay. I suppose your subby is still wondering where the money's going to come from later in the month to feed his family too. He does the best he can, tries to get it done quick I suppose and keep his reputation in tact playing with the feelings of people like you... try to accomodate but spend as little time as possible to keep the costs down.
Write the check... it's probably the cheapest thing you'll get done in a long while on that boat.
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Old 22-06-2010, 13:25   #18
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I can totally understand why MoonlightSailor has stopped payment and come to us for advice.

2.75 hours at $100 is a lot for someone on a cruisers $500 per month budget. Its over half the months budget! Even on a $1,000 per month budget its over 1 weeks budget!

As soon as I get a sniff that someone is having a lend of me there is no way my wallet slides outta my hip pocket.

So its good that people here have helped with information... But the tradespeople of this industry should be very upfront with their prices and perhaps an intrim tally now and again.



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Old 22-06-2010, 13:30   #19
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moonlightsailor, How about the next time, you take the equipment off, take it in for repairs and re-install it, then there will be nothing for you to ponder or loose sleep over. BTW, he has every right to file a lien against the boat and you have no case to fight it.
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Old 22-06-2010, 13:46   #20
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I can totally understand why MoonlightSailor has stopped payment and come to us for advice.

2.75 hours at $100 is a lot for someone on a cruisers $500 per month budget. Its over half the months budget! Even on a $1,000 per month budget its over 1 weeks budget!

As soon as I get a sniff that someone is having a lend of me there is no way my wallet slides outta my hip pocket.

So its good that people here have helped with information... But the tradespeople of this industry should be very upfront with their prices and perhaps an intrim tally now and again.



Mark
What? People don't do this? Ya come to me ya get an estimate. If I find more work than expected, ya get a call, email, whatever, authorizing it before I go further. If I finish the job for less time than estimated, the final invoice reflects the difference. That's for jobs other than paint. For paint, ya pay a price and get a paint job. If the substrate is screwed up way worse then normal wear and tear, you get a call before I continue. I don't understand the games that are sometimes played in this field...
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Old 22-06-2010, 21:46   #21
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The grocery store buys grapes for $.50 a pound and sells them for $3.00 a pound. Where's your outrage at that?
There's no outrage.....He has to buy the grapes at the same price I do.
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Old 22-06-2010, 22:29   #22
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I can totally understand why MoonlightSailor has stopped payment and come to us for advice.

2.75 hours at $100 is a lot for someone on a cruisers $500 per month budget. Its over half the months budget! Even on a $1,000 per month budget its over 1 weeks budget!

As soon as I get a sniff that someone is having a lend of me there is no way my wallet slides outta my hip pocket.

So its good that people here have helped with information... But the tradespeople of this industry should be very upfront with their prices and perhaps an intrim tally now and again.



Mark
Get real! OP lists his boat as "Custom cutter rigged sloop - 65". I don't think he's on a tight budget.
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Old 22-06-2010, 22:29   #23
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Thanks to all of you for your feedback! I wanted to keep the scenario simple to get feed back on the markup. Now here are a few more details.

There are a couple of points I now want to bring up:
1. I mentioned to the electrician that the unit was under warranty. He failed to tell the Xantrex repair man that information.
2. Electrician talked of no such mark-up for the repair. When I saw the hourly rate for the inverter repair and it was the same rate for his own work, I thought it looked suspicous. For all I know, he might have marked up the parts on the Xantrex repair too.
3. The electrician paid the xantrex repair guy in cash and got the job done in 2 days (nice turn around time) and then the electrician passed the inflated bill on to me. When the electrician handed me the bill he stated, "I didn't charge you for the delivery of the Xantrex units". When in fact that is exactly what he did. Only after I asked for the Xantrex repair man's phone number and called him in person did I find out he charges $80/hr.

There is my frustration!!! He straight up lied to me and I had to backdoor the electrician to find out the truth. I would also speculate that the electrician was hesitant to give me the Xantrex repairman's phone # because he asked me why I wanted to talk to him.

My father and I are 1 year from starting our cruising and I'm fed up with contractors who don't do expert and ethical work. This electrician who is working for us now is having to go back and fix the screw-ups and wrong install on the xantrex and other misc connections. When I'm paying someone to do electrical or any other work for that matter I want them to do it right the first time. I am the Captain of the vessel and it's my responsibility to every person on board to ensure that the work is done right and not a liability in the end. When I'm out in the middle of a puddle, it's my life and my crew that is on the line, not theirs! When it comes to electrical work I want it done right and done right the first time. These idiotic and irresponsible contractors are taking peoples lives into their hands when they do work on someones vessel. And believe me, I know what it's like for others to depend on me for their life. I've done ER nursing for many years and I've delivered every time and done my job right. I don't see it as being any different!
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Old 22-06-2010, 22:36   #24
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I say shame on you! I don't see anything wrong here. Its very normal to mark up sub-contractor work to cover overhead and as a profit center. If your agreement had been cost plus then maybe you've got an argument but otherwise I think you should pay up.
The only agreement was his (electrician) labor at $100/hr. Only after my investigation did the electrician tell me that he marks everyone's labor up. This is information that I feel I should have known up front and it's partly my fault for not asking. I feel like I was being deceived.
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Old 22-06-2010, 22:45   #25
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So they do 'all do it' but he should have told you about that before the job started.... or you should have asked... But how does one know to ask??????????

There are reasons why a prudent business person must put a percentage on top but when not explained it does look crook.

I think you will need to pay the account, but next time see if you can just get an electrician in for 1 hour advice and you pull the part off, get it fixed, and put it back on.

I always tell the 'lil mungrals: 1 hour is all the money I have, whats your hourly rate, OK start now. No smile, no pay!

Mark
If I require myself to ask those questions up front, then I have to assume that everyone working for me is trying to cheat or rip me off. In other words I can trust no one to the job right until I've done everything in my capacity to make sure that it's done right. Father always said to never trust anyone but "very close family".
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Old 22-06-2010, 22:51   #26
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[LEFT]

If I require myself to ask those questions up front, then I have to assume that everyone working for me is trying to cheat or rip me off. In other words I can trust no one to the job right until I've done everything in my capacity to make sure that it's done right. Father always said to never trust anyone but "very close family".
Dad sounds a bit paranoid to me.

Ever had your own business or always been an employee?
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Old 22-06-2010, 23:04   #27
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I will leave one more thought with everyone. My father has been a building contractor for over 30 years. Thank God for inspectors in that industry. I believe the boating industry needs the same kind of accountability for the workmanship put into boats. I would gladly pay a reasonable sum of money to have an inspector check the quality and correctness of a job. When an industry has inspectors that create a standard of workmanship then it has huge implications on the outcome of any job. The marine industry doesn't have such a stardard and it's a shame. I has become apparent to me there are too many incompetent contractors out there doing work on boats who do not have the proper training and oversight. Surveys required by insurance companies are on the right track but not sufficient to what the industry needs. Does the boating industry need the same kind of oversight that the housing industry has? I'm starting to believe that it does.
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Old 22-06-2010, 23:11   #28
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Doodles: I have every right to be paranoid when it's my life on the line? Paranoia/fear are the driving forces of survival!

I've been a employee most of my life. I own and operate my small non-profit business now. I'm both self-employed and business owner.
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Old 22-06-2010, 23:25   #29
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Doodles: I have every right to be paranoid when it's my life on the line? Paranoia/fear are the driving forces of survival!

I've been a employee most of my life. I own and operate my small non-profit business now. I'm both self-employed and business owner.
Being paranoid about having your life on the line is not the same as "never trust anyone but very close family."

If it is truly a non-profit organization, you are not the "owner". You may have been the founder and you may run the organization, but you are not an equity owner. By definition, there are no owners of non-profits, just directors and employees. And you are not "self-employed" but are an employee of the organization ... if it is a non-profit organization as you say.
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Old 22-06-2010, 23:30   #30
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I will leave one more thought with everyone. My father has been a building contractor for over 30 years. Thank God for inspectors in that industry. I believe the boating industry needs the same kind of accountability for the workmanship put into boats. I would gladly pay a reasonable sum of money to have an inspector check the quality and correctness of a job. When an industry has inspectors that create a standard of workmanship then it has huge implications on the outcome of any job. The marine industry doesn't have such a stardard and it's a shame. I has become apparent to me there are too many incompetent contractors out there doing work on boats who do not have the proper training and oversight. Surveys required by insurance companies are on the right track but not sufficient to what the industry needs. Does the boating industry need the same kind of oversight that the housing industry has? I'm starting to believe that it does.
I don't get it, you are complaining about a $275 bill and you want to pay an inspector to come out a check the work. What do you think the inspector should get paid for the job?
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