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Old 04-07-2010, 02:06   #16
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Pelagic, thanks for the post!!
Especially for the salary guide lines
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:25   #17
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Pelagic, It must be satisfying to be a "flammer" and personally attack other posters without at least RTFP.

The OP is totally new to the field and has no "portfolio." In any field of any profession you start at the bottom and work your way up unless you were born with the proverbial silver spoon in your mouth. Ever hear of "internships?" Or probationary periods? Either unpaid or very lowly paid positions until you develop the skills and demonstrate your worth to the employer.

I remember from a long ago post somebody you may know giving this advice:
"My first advice is to get actual experience “working” on boats so that you can develop recognizable skills and hopefully have a successful track record with employers who become your future references so that you can get in the super yacht door."

Of course you can jump over some of the starting "bottom of the barrel" jobs by paying for experience by attending schools and Maritime colleges: Same person described this in a an earlier post: "My early education started out majoring in philosophy and psychology, switched to marine biology before going to Marine College over the next few years until I reached master mariner levels.

I also formally studied; Hotel and Restaurant management, Accounting, VIP Security Training, Wine Appreciation, Marine Law, Naval Architecture, Fixed and Rotary pilots license, Human resource management.
"

Absent such schooling specific/associated to the profession you have to work your way up from the bottom. And getting that schooling is expensive in time and money. I remember some famous CF moderator listing some of the schooling:
"Yacht Masters: Basic boat handling (RYA)
Ocean Master: Ocean navigation. (RYA)
STCW 95: Basic safety training courses, required on commercial Yachts
OOW: Officer of the Watch ticket. the first run of the ladder to 3,000gt Mater. (MCA course)
Chief Mate: Second step to 3,000gt Master. (MCA course)
Master 200gt (both USCG and MCA use this name)
Master 500gt (both USCG and MCA use this name)
Master 3,000gt (both USCG and MCA use this name)
Master 200gt (USCG)
AEC: Basic Engineering. (MCA)
MEOL: Medium Engineering. (MCA)
Y4-Y1: Increasing stages of Engineering certificates. (MCA)
"

All of this takes years and considerable money and if that money is not available then you have to start with the dregs of the business to build experience, skills, knowledge, recommendations/resume and most importantly contacts in the business.

Your posting of employment agency pay scales is nice and gives an inspirational view of what might lay in the OP's future if he is successful in building the portfolio I mentioned. But to expect that kind of wages as a beginner without any experience or portfolio in postings from employment agencies is as reliable as asking a used car salesman about the value of the cars he is selling.

I quote again from another Cf long term'er that I agree with in this situation: "My sentiments are not meant to dissuade anyone from that career path...rather to give them a heads up to the realities of being a paid crew member."

It's wonderful that you are at the top of the business but for someone at the bottom looking to possibly get into the career field, a realistic assessment of what it takes to get to your position is more valuable than flaming and attacking/dismissing another who has nearly 50 years in the "serving others" profession.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:44   #18
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Sorry Orissail… did not mean to upset you by misquoting Shakespeare with a Smiley face.

I thought your posts were a bit dismissive of what I take personally as a serious industry, hence the good natured dig….

More importantly, I wanted to give the OP some facts about what professional crew can make at entry level with the added benefit that they can usually bank 85% of their salary to pay for those courses.

My apologies for any inferred insult…. It was not my intent….Cheers!
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Old 04-07-2010, 13:25   #19
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Accepted, but the disagreement is still what you mean by "entry level?" Entry level after lengthy portfolio of educational degrees and certificates - or entry level off the street?
I have spent considerable time in Antigua and other ports in the Caribbean where mega-yachts "hang out" waiting for their owners to fly down for the weekend or week. The deckhands and cabin staff (not the established career Captains and technical staff) are as I described, young, clean cut, and industrious and working for wages (unless they get one of the very few "enlightened" owners) wages they could not live on land with. Granted they are also getting room and board which is a major offset. But saving enough for the schools and training to advance to the next level of the business is not easy. It takes dedication and natural talent to make a success in that business - which also applies to almost all other business professions in the world.
- - A yacht with 10 crew contains only one Captain; one Cook/Chef; and one Engineer so of those other 7 people, if intending to move up, half of them will not make it.
- - So for the OP he needs to really as suggested in the first quote I made - "get actual experience “working” on boats . . " to evaluate if this profession really fits with his natural talents before investing time and money.
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Old 04-07-2010, 13:47   #20
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osirissail, you say "I have spent considerable time in Antigua and other ports in the Caribbean where mega-yachts "hang out" waiting for their owners to fly down for the weekend or week."

what do you consider considerable time??? I have spent more time WORKING on these yachts from 77 feet up to 200 feet.

osirissail you say, "A yacht with 10 crew contains only one Captain; one Cook/Chef; and one Engineer so of those other 7 people, if intending to move up, half of them will not make it.
- - So for the OP he needs to really as suggested in the first quote I made - "get actual experience “working” on boats . . " to evaluate if this profession really fits with his natural talents before investing time and money
."

several yachts I know have 2 captain, 2 chefs and several engineers.

If I took the advice you give I never would have made it,,,
unless you have worked in the business how can you give advice about it????

Pelagic has given better posting that were right on the money

keep sailing the sailboat (gulfstar at that) (doesn't it sail sideways) and leave the yachting advice to the people who work in the industry
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Old 04-07-2010, 14:06   #21
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osirissail, you say "You can expect to start out at 'subsistence/survival' "
That is also a bunch of crap. I started out making more than 75k my first year and I never worked on a yacht before. Do you think that is entry level pay????

" 'It can be done, but it's a lot of work.' And that is the key to success and enjoying life. Do the work to get the skills and you will move up to more rewarding - both financially and personally - jobs. With advancement comes 'perks' and privileges - chances to see the world and visit places you had only dreamed of before - and somebody else is paying you to do that."

This is the first thing you have said that is true,,,the owners of a yacht can have a great influence on you future life

stick with sailing,,, not giving advice on the mega yacht industry

so far most of it has been wrong
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Old 04-07-2010, 14:17   #22
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osirisail,,,,,you said "The OP is totally new to the field and has no 'portfolio.' In any field of any profession you start at the bottom and work your way up unless you were born with the proverbial silver spoon in your mouth. Ever hear of 'internships?' Or probationary periods? Either unpaid or very lowly paid positions until you develop the skills and demonstrate your worth to the employer."

You must be an oldtimer who started out at the bottom and thinks that everybody should do that,,,,
why start out as a deckhand when you can be the mate or start out as the mate or be the captain???
I would LOVE to hear you can explain that

there are other ways of getting to the top,,, true you might not be able to get that position that you want right away.

When I started out yachting as a chef I had 3 captains tell me that they would NOT hire me because I never went to cooking school. I self-promoted myself with a web site and advertised in the local paper for a position as chef.,,, talked my way onto a 150 foot mega-yacht and won the Concours des Chef's" Competition in Monaco year 2000

Maybe I should have listened to you and taken a job as a dishwasher instead. Or listened to the 3 captains instead.
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Old 04-07-2010, 14:48   #23
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Orissail…One thing I learned as a captain was to never piss off the chef!

Lighten up guys!....

ps.... to the OP... you can see that the food is GREAT!
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Old 04-07-2010, 15:31   #24
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Lol, ok the OP is back!! Seriouly this is far better than a comedy showcase!!

Orissail...I know it takes hard work and dedication to get somewhere in life, believe me if you had to hear my life story you would understand!!
I have already confirmed with 2 Oceans Maritime Academy that I'm going to do the RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Course in January 2011. From there on I have dedication to get me to the top!!!

Referring to what captainKJ explained about his story of getting a job on a 150 foot mega-yacht when first starting off, I believe what the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can acheive.

Orissail...I'm not disrespecting you by saying this but you can watch this space because I don't just have hard working and dedication characteristics in life but I also have faith!!

Thanks to everybody for your input, you have really helped me and it is very much appreciated!!
Ahoy
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Old 04-07-2010, 16:47   #25
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Get the popcorn, this is gonna be good,,,,,gotta have a little fun,,, just being firm

Stylishboss,,, you will do good in the business,,, get a little knowledge of engine room if you can,,, this will help you out on a smaller yacht if you have no engineer, just the basics if you can,,, you can always get a job in a yard doing ac work or working for an ac company that just does boats,,,, fort lauderdale is considered the yachting capital of the world
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:41   #26
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I have restored this thread to the public forum, but I'm going to ask that the participants give some thought to the power of words before posting anything that could be construed as negative and directed at another member. That will only result in sanctions as we enforce the Prime Directive:

We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.

Thank you for your cooperation.

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Old 10-07-2010, 19:56   #27
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And

Stay out of the Engine Room

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Orissail…One thing I learned as a captain was to never piss off the chef!

Lighten up guys!....

ps.... to the OP... you can see that the food is GREAT!
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Old 10-07-2010, 20:16   #28
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Stay out of the Engine Room
OK, I will stay out of the engine room,,,, keep my head going and I will keep you in good food for ever,,,,


If you are referring to the OP,,, might want to rethink that, post,,

I know several captain who went BACK to the engine room because they got tired of the politics in the pilot house. If I new years ago what I know now about boats,,, yachting and commercial i would have went to the engine room,,, less politics and more friendship it seems,,, smaller community different personalities,,,

just my observation from being in the galley and on the deck
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:55   #29
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OK, I will stay out of the engine room,,,, keep my head going and I will keep you in good food for ever,,,,

I know several captain who went BACK to the engine room because they got tired of the politics in the pilot house. If I new years ago what I know now about boats,,, yachting and commercial i would have went to the engine room,,, less politics and more friendship it seems,,, smaller community different personalities,,,

just my observation from being in the galley and on the deck
Interesting observation Ken…. From my perspective as a captain/manager the Catering and Engineering departments usually had the happiest guys (if they knew what they were doing) and were the mainstay personalities that kept everything going.

I thought of both the Chef and Chief Engineer as “mechanics” who quietly plied their skills and no one ever noticed a problem unless something failed

The Deck and Hotel departments usually were crewed by more outgoing personalities ...more suitable for interacting with the guests, but that did sometimes breed favoritism, competition and politics.

I was lucky, that I had a Chief Engineer and a German Head Chef that stayed with me from new-build delivery till I retired after 10 years and a few circumnavigations’. (even the 2nd Chef is still the same)

9 years later, they are still there and the main reason is that we supported them in their needs, appreciated their great work and I only came into the engine room or galley to act as an assistant to pass tools or wash dishes. They are still like family to me.

It was also great to see the good Mates and Stewardess’ advance to get their own commands, but it seemed the attrition rate was higher as a result of their personality types.

In general, we were a very happy ship because we favored remote places and I never hired from the Med or Florida, where the crews there seemed to be a cynical lot full of discontent.
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