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Old 20-01-2016, 07:52   #16
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

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I don't understand the logic in charging different prices for the same slip for a boat, now if your tied alongside of a dock, then of course it makes sense, but a slip? Now there are big slips for bigger boats, and of course they cost more. In my marina I think there are three different types / sizes of slip, and three different prices.
Big slips, smaller slips, and covered slips for the powerboaters if they wish.

I've been astonished at late how many have commented on they "need" at least 50' to be comfortable in, and sometimes they are even talking a 50' Cat?
Makes me wonder if the "Mcmansion" phenomena is extending to sailing or if it has always been there?
Just starting in Europe by they do seem to use size ranges as opposed to actual length.

I suspect in the states, it's a marketing thing. In a lot of areas, it seems like you have more competing marinas in close proximity. If you have one marina has a 30' slip and another has a 35' slip for the same per foot price, and I'm in a 28' boat, I'm taking the 30' slip. Assuming both marinas have plenty of empty slips, better to charge for 28' and give them a 35' slip rather than drive the customer to another marina. We've wound up in 60-70' slips a few times and we would have laughed at them if they wanted to charge us for that.

Yes, it does seem like a lot of newbies are coming on and asking about amazingly large and expensive boats. While I won't encourage them, it does mean a steady supply of used boats when it doesn't pan out for 99%.
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Old 20-01-2016, 08:09   #17
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

Some good points there Valhalla.

Seems to be an undue amount of focus on capability for 'entertaining' other people too.

Now I like the approach to entertaining of motorbike Clubs in Hungary (been on sites where they show up). They all disappear in the morning in different directions picking things up allotted or volunteered to supply, back for a bite to eat around lunchtime, then they all get stuck in creating a massive goulash over the BBQ pit, having a great time together sharing the food preparation and cooking (the goulash having to be constantly stirred until serving, so everybody takes a turn), then about 8:00 pm everybody on the site is visited and "Party! Come Eat. Come drink!" are the words.

Well boats anchored near beach, beach close to anchored boats, what the heck do you need a ballroom on a boat for?

"Party! Come Eat. Come drink!"

{I'll never forget one guy in a Budapest Club, the size of the incredible hulk, come up to me and Gerrard, a Dutch guy sat having a quiet beer and a chat outside the bar, and he mumbled something we didn't understand, so he picked both of us up and carried us to the tables, sat us down, plonked a bottle of beer each in front of us and said "Drink!", then a plate of food each in front of us and said "Eat!", and we certainly weren't going to argue with him - great guy, great Club, great memories}
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Old 20-01-2016, 09:03   #18
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

Well, as been well said in other uh, non-related forums, size counts, lol. But for counterpoint, ask any 29 year old about how large the upcoming "Big 30" feels. Somehow turning 29 wasn't nearly as bad...

Actually the earlier link to the following will answer all:
http://www.oceannavigator.com/Ocean-...ing-a-balance/

I found it interesting that for used boats, "30" wasn't particularly special, with purchase prices increasing rather linearly, compared to new boat where the prices increased cubicly (along with pieces/parts).
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Old 20-01-2016, 09:33   #19
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

Having owned boats from 25' to 36' I'll chime in with my 2c worth.

A boat builder friend of mine once explained it to me very clearly. Basically a boat builder when pricing his end product starts with the weight of the boat's hull (hull itself plus ballast weight), as this is his foremost expense overall. So of course a 32 footer which weighs say 10,000lbs will be twice as expensive to produce as a 29 footer which weighs 5,000 lbs, all other things (systems, rigging, etc) being somewhat similar. Although again, a 32 footer will normally have "the next step up" in these things compared to a 29 footer such as rigging, winches, ballast, engine, etc. which makes the cost (and subsequently sale price) difference even more pronounced.

So from the average buyer's perspective not knowing this baseline it can be puzzling that a 3ft LOA difference will produce twice the price difference at the check out.

Personally I feel that a well laid out 27-28 footer is better than a poorly laid out 30 footer. And same can be said of the 33-34 and 35-36' comparison. And having looked at plenty of boats in the past 20 years or so, I found that 30-32 range is the least desirable from my perspective. One often ends up paying in the "big boys" range but it still feels smallish. Same with the 25-26 range which feels often like a 23-24 but with a 27-28 footer price tag. And like I said having owned a few boats in the 25-36 range I also speak from personal experience here.

As far as used prices, especially for older boats, most of the time the price difference between 29 and 31 is not really justified other than in the seller's mind of having a "bigger" boat for sale. At this point boat's condition, especially the engine, and upgrades should be single most important price factor. It is a common knowledge and an old saying that on a 25+ year old 30' boat its engine is 80% of its value.
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Old 20-01-2016, 10:15   #20
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

At my marina, and many near here (Lake Ontario), there is a price per foot for boats UNDER 30, and a higher price for boats OVER 30. FYI, 30 counts as UNDER 30. I believe there are also customs rules (between USA and CANADA) which use the same qualifier...UNDER 30 is a small boat, of little interest to them.

Also, look at hardware...bigger than 30 and you are jumping up a size in just about everything, from anchors and lines to engines and fuel. To be blunt, OVER 30 just costs more...it seems to be the tipping point.

Maybe this explains why there are lots of popular models at (or near) 30'...Catalina 30, Pearson 30 (2 models...flyer and not flyer), C&C29, C&C30, Nonsuch 30, Grampian 30, etc, etc.

We have a similar law regarding engines. Under 10hp in Canada does not require any license or registration. 10hp and above does. So you can imagine, the 9.9hp outboard is very popular here...as it saves on taxes and paperwork when buying or selling a boat, at the very least. I had a C&C25 with a honda 100 (9.8hp) which I often took back and forth to the US with no trouble at all, even with no license or registration number.
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Old 20-01-2016, 10:52   #21
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand the logic in charging different prices for the same slip for a boat, now if your tied alongside of a dock, then of course it makes sense, but a slip? Now there are big slips for bigger boats, and of course they cost more. In my marina I think there are three different types / sizes of slip, and three different prices.
At my marina, I was at a row of 25' finger docks. My boat was 30'. My neighbours were 26' and 35'. We all had the exact same docks. But we all paid different prices, based on our length. At my marina you pay for the length of you boat, OR the length of your dock, whichever is GREATER. And yes, its LOA not LOD. And they charge for your dinghy too.

Yes, my marina has that rare combination of high prices and poor service that guarantees unsatisfied customers. Confederation Basin Marina, Kingston, ONT, Canada.
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Old 20-01-2016, 10:56   #22
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I don't understand the logic in charging different prices for the same slip for a boat, now if your tied alongside of a dock, then of course it makes sense, but a slip? Now there are big slips for bigger boats, and of course they cost more. In my marina I think there are three different types / sizes of slip, and three different prices.
I know I'm getting a bit off topic, but in today's environmentally concerned world, I would love to see dock fees based on HP.

Think about it for a minute before you flame me.
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Old 20-01-2016, 11:11   #23
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

LOL, that's more then a little off-topic

As far as people 'needing' 50' and more to be 'comfortable':
I don't understand it. I was just talking to a guy wanting to become a liveaboard and he said he'd need at least 45' - 50' too, to have enough living space - so he's looking at boats that don't really have more living space, but a lot of extra beds & heads he won't be using

But to each his own. At least marina fees are still very affordable here in the Dutchies - prices in America are ... well, let's just say I was pretty shocked when I saw the amounts people are paying on these forums.

Another good thing about smaller boats: I can always find a slip / spot in any marina. Even in high season, when marina's claim to be 'full', there's always a spot I can squeeze into
My dad's last boat was 65' - he always had to call at least a day ahead. Bye bye to the 'we'll see where we end up today' trips, which I still enjoy very much.
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Old 20-01-2016, 12:37   #24
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

Thank you all for the replies! I'm used to forums were you may get a couple of replies in a day.

My past ownership has been a couple of trailer sailers, a old MacGregor 22 and then my "big" boat, a Hunter 23.5 so I have a lot to learn.
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Old 20-01-2016, 12:42   #25
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

A useful 'rule of thumb' is that maintenance cost double with each 3ft increase in boat length. It works well as long as the boats are relatively similar. but not if one is a heavy weight cruise and the other a weekend racer.
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Old 20-01-2016, 12:53   #26
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

I am not actually disagreeing with anything said by anyone, but here in Northern California I think the break point may be longer than 30 feet.

Here, as far as I've heard, berths are charged by length = so keeping a boat under 30 feet is almost as expensive as a much bigger boat - people don't like to pay as much in berthing fees per year as they can sell their boat for, but that is the case with all but a few primo boat lines for everything under 25 feet and more than say 20 years old.

Personally, I think this is mostly shortsighted greed on the part of the marinas = by charging this way, they eliminated the young low-budget owners from boat ownership, and guess what? Now they don't have so many middle aged middle budget - or middle-aged High budget boat owners, and the entire industry is declining rapidly.

And besides being bad for boating, they don't get paid for empty slips anyway, do they? Oh well.
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Old 20-01-2016, 13:03   #27
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

Just down the dock from me a Lady is trying to sell her Hunter 26, she tried un-successfully to live aboard. I believe she is paying the same slip rent that I am, about $300, but much cheaper slips are around, sometimes you can find a private slip behind someones house for $150 or so.
I assume the Marina will end up owning her boat as it's not in good shape and I doubt she can sell it.

Lizzy, a lot of the prices you see are for South Fl, where most of the people from up North want to go, and apparently they have a lot more money to spend than some and that drives prices up.
Just a little further North in the Panhanlde of Fl, prices are much less as we are just beginning to experience the invasion from the North

We often refer to this as the war of Northern Aggression
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Old 20-01-2016, 13:08   #28
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

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Lizzy, a lot of the prices you see are for South Fl, where most of the people form up North want to go
Ah, I sees

I saw prices as high as $500 a month excluding fees (also worth a couple of hundred $) etc - for monohuls under 40'. I spilled my coffee when I first read that, haha!

I'm in what is an expensive marina for the Netherlands, and I pay around $1700 per 12 months (in the water) for a 30' boat. That's including showers, fees etc - everything but the electricity I use (which isn't much on a small, basic boat ).
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Old 20-01-2016, 13:13   #29
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

I found my Pearson 30 had plenty of space for me, all my junk, a month's worth of food/water, and even an avon dinghy (stowed below with outboard on the stern rail). I had enough space that my "guests" (kids) would get the entire vee to themselves, so they could be messy, while I stayed in the main cabin.

1 head is almost 1 too many. I can't imagine needing 2. Sorry ladies.

I'm thinking of 35' for my next boat though. Nothing to do with space below, but the bigger the boat, the smaller the waves seem to be. I do like a small boat tho....the smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure. Hmmm...maybe I'll go back to 25' after all?
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Old 20-01-2016, 14:03   #30
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Re: Why is 30' the "magic" price point?

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Ah, I sees

I saw prices as high as $500 a month excluding fees (also worth a couple of hundred $) etc - for monohuls under 40'. I spilled my coffee when I first read that, haha!

I'm in what is an expensive marina for the Netherlands, and I pay around $1700 per 12 months (in the water) for a 30' boat. That's including showers, fees etc - everything but the electricity I use (which isn't much on a small, basic boat ).
Dana Point, Southern California. About $520 for a 30' slip. Not allowed to even think about living aboard.

Yes, that's absolutely outrageous. Maybe I should move to the Netherlands.
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