What to Expect in Negotiations When Purchasing

[Pblais]

(1) Google BUC
(2) Try the archived listings at http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99.html

Both of these sources are generally worthless. The only decent data is from the sold list maintained by YachtWorld. It's owned by the same group that owns all the rest of the major boat listing and advertising systems. It is not available to the public but is available to brokers / members that pay membership fees.

Boats don't break down the same where all Catlinia 30's are the same value based on year. It does happen to be a boat with a large enough production run to get some idea on the numbers and trends. That is a very rare situation ecept in smaller boats. Many boats never had more than 100 made and often none of them were really all that much the same. Add 20 years and some salt and any boat can be worthless. The details in boat valuation don't even add up just on the sale price either.

[Lancerbye]

As others have posted, Never fall so much in love with a : boat, car, house etc. that you are not willing to walk away at any point. In these economic times the one with the cash is at a definite advantage and should be prepared to use it. You might not make a friend but that should not have been your intention to begin with. I have also been called a cheap SOB. Do your homework on any deal and offer low. It is easier to counter with more than with less.

[rover88]

Thanks for the great advice Peter!! That’s the sort of thing I’m looking for.

As a Series owner you certainly understand my masochistic tendencies and well as appreciate the notion of duck tape and bailing wire as a panacea to most vehicular inadequacies. Not so sure I’m willing to apply the same rover style mechanical or structural maintenance with a boat.

I can walk much further than I can swim.

[BassAckwards]

Originally Posted by rover88

So, lighten up…… Are all sailors so politically correct and overly sensitive to be offended by a poorly chosen reference to my fiscal mannerisms? H*ll, I’m proud to be a cheapskate!!

Jeez, I honestly believed that only when we are able to make fun of ourselves we become truly mainstream.

A sense of humor, even a bad one, separates us from our simian cousins. Yet the PC trend has been a true backward move in human evolution.

I agree with you. You werent being malicious. Stereotypes are fun to play with.

Having a Scots grandfather who married a Polish Jew, I loved the "tartan yarmulke" and found no offense what so ever. When my grandmother married my grandfather, her family disowned her for marrying outside the religion. My poor ole grandfather converted to Judaism in order to make peace for his lovely little bride.

It would take too long to relate the story of how he had to go through ritual circumcision during his conversion, but I will never forget him telling how he was standing there with his...well, the thing that had to be ritually circumcised and as they came at him with the razor and he started thinking "man, what did I get myself into?!" . The tartan yarmulke will forever remind me of him. haha He would love it.


Banks will sometimes use buc only for an initial reference in trying to established the relative value of a boat. http://www.buc.com/; but the survey is the gold standard. (and a must for insurance too)

I used buc to help me in buying my boat. When I settled on a boat I felt had potential, I then did a lot of internet research to see what comparable boats were going for. Once everything seemed to point to this being "the one", I then told the seller that I wanted a survey, and that would establish the price I would be interested in looking to pay. If he balked I would walk away telling him that I needed time to think.

I wouldnt call him for a while and let him realize that there were more boat sellers than there were boat buyers. I then would call and just check on him in a friendly manner and casually ask if he had reconsidered.

I went through a few potentials until I connected. Stay friendly and never stalk off.

Of course, you being a realtor know what you need to do.

[BlueWaterSail]

Rover,

It all depends on the boat. Well-maintained examples attract more potential buyers, so you won't have much of a chance to low-ball the seller. Sound but neglected ones allow more discounting, but - generally speaking- you'll face additional expense amounting to most (maybe all) of the difference in bringing the latter up to the equivalent standard of the former.

BWS

[rover88]

Bernard, Good to hear that there is some degree of tolerance here for those with a self-effacing sense of humor and utter distain of the PC mindset. My family history is somewhat similar to yours. My maternal Grandmother’s family fled Stalin to South America and then to the U.S. (fascinating family history). My paternal Grandfather came from Scots-Irish stock. “Mixed marriages” throughout. It's good to be a Mutt.

For all the variety in my genealogy there is one group of people I have been unable to identify in my lineage. Not a single sailor in the entire lot.

Good to hear all the sound advice on making the best of my new adventure and I appreciate all the input of those who constructively contributed. I tolerate those few who like to pass judgment, for they are as free to speak as I.

I will rely on all your advice, my continued research and what I already know of property value. Yet in the end I think a portion of my negotiations and purchase will boil down to just being in the right place at the right time.

[sandy daugherty]

Soldboat.com requires a subscription. Brokers, Surveyors, and a few others who can write off $500 may also have a subscription. If you don't have a buddy who will check the price history for you, Get a Buyer's Representative to do comps on what ever you are interested in. A word of caution: Prices will be all over the chart for similar models, either because of equipment and condition, or some other factor, practical or emotional. You will need to know what came on that "average" priced boat, so try to read the listings and look at the pictures of those comps if you can. The selling Broker will usually try to steer the seller towards that average too, but most sellers aren't hungry, and beleive their boat is better than all those others. And remember a boat is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. If the seller doesn't know that, its not really for sale.

[Cheechako]

Try to find a similar boat that was for sale and sold. Often you can see the price reductions on line. As you page down on Google you will find older ads at higher prices. Once you fine the newest ad offer 30% less or so. Example of a boat earlier this year (when the economy was better!): First ad $39500, Later ad $34500, last ad $29500, Purchased at $23000 after inspection and survey. With the boats you are considering, prices should be excellent. These are good boats, just not so popular now. Also, you might consider a Fuji 32. Nice little boats. Use other boats (even if they are "more used") as negotiating power.

[BassAckwards]

Originally Posted by rover88

Bernard, Good to hear that there is some degree of tolerance here for those with a self-effacing sense of humor and utter distain of the PC mindset. My family history is somewhat similar to yours. My maternal Grandmother’s family fled Stalin to South America and then to the U.S. (fascinating family history). My paternal Grandfather came from Scots-Irish stock. “Mixed marriages” throughout. It's good to be a Mutt.

Well rover, its good to know you have a sense of humor, cuz I think the Scots just disowned you! HAH! Bernard Moitessier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Where are you located? There are few nice boats down here on Galveston Bay that can be bought right, due to Hurricane Ike.

My paternal grandmother was a Cajun and I identify more with the Cajun culture. The Cajuns at one time were maliciously ridiculed because of their customs and broken English-French patois and the locals hung the diminutive, "Coon Ass" on the Cajuns (because they did a lot of trapping).

The Cajuns took the term coon ass and embraced it as a badge of honor.

Im what we Cajuns now proudly call ourselves; an RCA.....Registered Coon Ass!

Aiieeee! Ahn dat be duham right

[nautical62]

I don't think one can state any strong correlation between initial asking price and final selling price. Sellers are all over the board with what they ask. As Paul said earlier, you have the price the boat costs you to purchase and the price it will cost you to have it ready for sailing you plan to do. Consider the later when offering the former. Used boats may vary greatly on the repairs, upgrades and cruising equipment they need.

Both the NADA blue book and BUC will give you some idea of what boats might sell for, but I feel these are ball park estimates only. Compared to buying used cars, there are fewer boats of each model and their conditions can vary greatly, so I think the market it not nearly as tight. The number of only a few boats on the market or people looking for them can greatly affect the market value.

I recently passed on a Morgan OI 30. It had orignally been listed in the low 20s, then dropped to 16K, but was still on the market after two years. We settled on 12K, but even at that price, there were just too many problems uncoverd during the survey, many of which the owner didn't even know about. Some lessons there: 1. Many sellers overlook the issues with their boats. 2. A boat that has been on the market for some time at a give price with no offers is more likely to sell at a reduced price. 3. Even a boat with a lower selling price isn't a good deal if it takes a lot of money, time and effort to get it ready to sail. 4. Walk away from any boat that isn't right no matter how much you've invested in time, survey's etc.

Also, who ever is the most excited about buying or selling, has the least power when it comes to negotiating. Stay objective and have patience.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Lots of good points made already.

I would add that one of the potential problems on a "Bargain" from a cash strapped seller (or simply one who has taken a long time to drop the asking price into the ball park) is that TLC and Maintanence are one of the easy first savings. And the longer the absence of, the less of a bargain she may prove to be.

And of course all boat owners have differing opinions on what a good boat is. And hard to accept for a Vendor that, with a major refit thrown into the equation, a boat may not have any great value - certainly not at commercial rates.

[stevensc]

Think of what you want to pay, offer lots less he probably will counter but higher than you want, go up a bit etc etc, you know, just like buying "aguacates en el mercado". I just bought one that way. I was satisfied as was the seller.
Steve

[rover88]

Once again, thanks to all for the great advice.

I purchased the book “Surveying the Fiberglass Sailboat” and it was well worth the $17 investment. While no substitute for a proper survey it can save someone like me the unnecessary expense hiring a surveyor when vetting potential boats.

The search is proving onerous to this novice, but is in itself a learning experience.

[bg9208]

Originally Posted by tom151

(1) Google BUC
(2) Try the archived listings at Sailboat Photo Gallery, A

Having Googled as suggested;

Sorry to be dense but what has the British Unicycle Convention" got to do with buying a boat?

[dacust]

Originally Posted by bg9208

Having Googled as suggested;

Sorry to be dense but what has the British Unicycle Convention" got to do with buying a boat?

Many, many sailboaters keep a unicycle on board. For some reason, the accepted practice is to mount it upside-down by the seatpost in the cockpit sole. While they are driving, they seem to derive great pleasure from spinning the wheel back and forth, back and forth.

Dunno why, but there ya are...