Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-01-2013, 11:56   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 35
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Recently sold my boat using craigslist and sailboatlistings.com. Several calls from both resources. Craigslist tended to generate the email scam offers and no real serious buyers. Sailboatlistings.com tended to generate legitimate inquiries and of course, led to the sale. I sold it in under two weeks of listing to the first buyer to look at it - not bad.

I cannot even remotely understand how a broker would have helped other than taking part of the money.

The comment about you knowing every aspect about your boat is really relevant in highlighting how selling it yourself is more effective. I could highlight and demonstrate key features that make my boat stand out. Brokers know nothing about the boats I have looked at beyond what's in the listing.

The only real value in buying a boat is that they have access to the brokers database showing listing/sold pricing for boats. That's very helpful in putting together a realistic offer. Although the buyer is "technically" paying the broker fee, it ends up inflating the price of the boat. So brokered boats will have the fee built into the price.

I get that some people do not feel comfortable "selling" or just don't have the time. My recommendation would be to address in the contract what happens if you sell the boat yourself.
__________________

__________________
HeartsContent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2013, 12:04   #32
Registered User
 
LostAtSea2011's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 204
I sold my boat privately and used a broker to do all the paperwork and deal with the buyer. Paid the broker $1000 to do this. Sure was better than losing 10% .
__________________

__________________
LostAtSea2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2013, 13:17   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 260
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostAtSea2011 View Post
I sold my boat privately and used a broker to do all the paperwork and deal with the buyer. Paid the broker $1000 to do this. Sure was better than losing 10% .
This is what I would do. I do this when I buy cars. I pay a fee to a dealer so I can buy cars at auctions. They manage the paperwork.

The best plan would be to pay a broker a set fee (say $500-$1000) to list the boat on Yachtworld. You handle the sale while he handles the paperwork.
__________________
jostalli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-01-2013, 14:21   #34
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
So, what is the standard commission on used boats? BOB

Around here, 10% except for the "Knot 10" brokerage (not 10%), and I think they want 7%.

-Chris
__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 09:05   #35
Registered User
 
Jort's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 209
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

When it comes to the paperwork you can do that yourself as well. The following factors determine how the transaction takes place and what kind of contracts you need:

1. Is the boat documented/registered or not and if so, in which country?
2. Is there a mortgage involved?
3. Does the buyer need finance/mortgage to buy the boat?

If a mortgage is involved it is always smart to use a legal advisor with an escrow account, so he can clear the mortgage from the received payment on his escrow account and then pay the remainder of the money to the seller after the boat has been delivered.

The shipping registries around the world have the same output except they work different (other procedures, forms & documents). It is not hard to find out how you delete a registration, transfer ownership and register a boat in any country. Yes, it requires a lot of searching and some people don't feel like doing that. The same goes for drafting the sales agreement, protocol of delivery and a bill of sale. These need to be altered based on the above factors.

The point that was made is that a lot of people don't want to invest time in this and I agree. However, 7% or even 10% commission is a lot of money when you consider the brokers work with the same factors, have all these template contracts and know their way around the registries (some do). It also prevents you from taking care of viewings of the boat. So it will save you time. Still people feel they are paying too much for a pretty standard service and I agree to that as well. That is why we created the DIY sales module. It sets itself to the situations (the above factors) and therefore always delivers a tailored solution. You don't need to look into drafting agreements, looking into the workings of the registries (they are already in with all the procedures, forms and documents). I recently sold my own boat like this from The Netherlands to an English buyer and it took me roughly two hours in total after the viewing of the boat took place. I needed to look up all the documents of the boat (you need to look up the original invoice, builders certificate, last bill of sale, etc. anyway), run through the steps and I got the right contracts and the buyer had all the documents he needed to register in the SSR in the UK (Part I and Part III). Payment was done using a bank guarantee, so I could safely deliver the boat knowing for sure I would be paid. All the legal and financial aspects were dealt with, I havenít paid anyone and I only spend 2 hours. To me a $ 1.000,- dollars fixed fee is still money (in this case I saved $ 500,- per hour), but especially the old school commission of around 7% to 10% arenít even something to consider. When you advertise on the right websites, share it through social media and maybe even use Google Adwords to increase traffic to your advertisements you can find a buyer quickly. You can even lower your price because the broker fee is not in anymore and that is great considering that on todayís buyers market price is key in finding a buyer quickly.
__________________
Jort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 18:20   #36
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

I sold real estate for four years. One of the things I was taught to do was make the initial search, then cull out every house with a below average commission.

As a result of that experience, I would increase a commission, but if I were selling anything, there's no way I would lower or eliminate it.

The salesmen who are savy enough to sort or search by commission are exactly the salesmen you want to attract, not eliminate.

One of the other things that experience taught me is the huge disadvantage a lone owner trying to sell one item is at on an open marketplace.
__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 18:55   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

IMHO the real estate market and boat sales are vastly different. For starters, very few people are looking for a particular type of house no matter where it is located in the world, which is frequently the case with boats. The real estate agent can have very valuable expertise in a particular market, while a boat broker may have never seen half the boats he's listing and know less about the particular boat than you do. The main advantage of a broker is when someone is selling a boat in great demand in a popular location and the seller doesn't want to have to weed through all of the calls, lowball offers, showings, etc., and feels that the help with the selling paperwork, etc. is needed. However, if you're selling a lower-priced boat in maybe an out of the way location where there are few other listings, a broker may not have much incentive to even show your boat. Many other differences between boat sales and real estate.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 21:55   #38
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
Recently sold my boat using craigslist and sailboatlistings.com. Several calls from both resources. Craigslist tended to generate the email scam offers and no real serious buyers. Sailboatlistings.com tended to generate legitimate inquiries and of course, led to the sale. I sold it in under two weeks of listing to the first buyer to look at it - not bad.

I cannot even remotely understand how a broker would have helped other than taking part of the money.

The comment about you knowing every aspect about your boat is really relevant in highlighting how selling it yourself is more effective. I could highlight and demonstrate key features that make my boat stand out. Brokers know nothing about the boats I have looked at beyond what's in the listing.

The only real value in buying a boat is that they have access to the brokers database showing listing/sold pricing for boats. That's very helpful in putting together a realistic offer. Although the buyer is "technically" paying the broker fee, it ends up inflating the price of the boat. So brokered boats will have the fee built into the price.

I get that some people do not feel comfortable "selling" or just don't have the time. My recommendation would be to address in the contract what happens if you sell the boat yourself.
I think it depends on the boat. The higher end the boat is the more you need a broker. If it's a Catalina 25 you probably don't need one, but if it's a Amel 53 then it's a different story.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 23:23   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 260
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I think it depends on the boat. The higher end the boat is the more you need a broker. If it's a Catalina 25 you probably don't need one, but if it's a Amel 53 then it's a different story.
I disagree. Please explain your logic.
__________________
jostalli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 23:45   #40
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by jostalli View Post
I disagree. Please explain your logic.
When there is more money on the line there is more professionalism needed and expected by both buyer and seller. For example, if you're buy/selling a half million dollar boat you won't be looking at CraigsList, probably not even Sailboat Listing. It's just not their market. And if you that's you budget, you as buyer or seller probably have a busy schedule and you don't have time or inclination to show the boat yourself or maybe you don't even live nearby. The larger the boat, the less places to keep it and use it, so chances are you may live a day or more's drive away which is not very convenient for showing a boat. On the other hand, if its a $20k or less deal, you probably got the time and it maybe its on a trailer in your backyard or down at the local marina, so not a big deal to show it to a prospective buyer.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2013, 23:55   #41
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Kettlewell, you should negotiate the lowest commission you possibly can.
__________________
Jammer Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-01-2013, 06:33   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,949
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Kettlewell, you should negotiate the lowest commission you possibly can.
In my experience, selling seven different boats, all under $50 K, the commission was non-negotiable. Either 10% of the selling price or forget it. Some brokers want either an exclusive listing, or they won't take it. I suspect on higher end boats the commission might be more negotiable, and in this market maybe brokers are changing their tune a bit, like the Knot 10 folks mentioned.
__________________
Kettlewell Cruising
Kettlewell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2013, 00:20   #43
Registered User
 
Andy73's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 229
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
Kettlewell, you should negotiate the lowest commission you possibly can.
Jammer,

Respectfully, like much else in the world, you often get what you pay for... Hardballing an agent's commission will often result in reduced performance on their part. Not a professional response, but often true.

My 2 cents, you need to look at the value the agent is offering (advertising, professionalism, paperwork, etc) and ask yourself if that price is more than you can provide on your own.
__________________
Andy73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:55   #44
Registered User
 
Knucklehead's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NAS Patuxent River, MD
Boat: 2004 Beneteau 473
Posts: 66
Send a message via Yahoo to Knucklehead
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Contract length

Found a very nice boat, besides it being a little high in the cost category, I have a question.
Should a seller be approached by a buyer, directly, who (seller) has a contract with a broker. Is the seller obligated to pay commission?
That 10% savings could be the deal maker. When adding the 10% and the normal counter offer of 5-10%, I could afford the boat.
I have sold two boats through a broker, total cumulative value of $410k. When all is said and done, paper work is nominal. Lending institution does most it.
Bottom line, contracts normally are for a specific (standard) length of time. Anyone know what it might be?
__________________
retired retired retired
Knucklehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:05   #45
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in Oriental NC
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 2,912
Re: What is the Standard Brokerage Commission

Quote:
Originally Posted by simonmd View Post
As with anything, a boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If it's not selling, it's the wrong price.

A very simplistic view granted.
You keep qualifying your views as simplistic. It's just about the only accurate thing you've said.

Your assessment of how much it costs to run a successful, well regarded brokerage is way off the mark. Advertising, administrative, and communications/infrastructure costs can be substantial. There is a lot of paper work from titling, state registration, CG registration, insurance, escrow, etc.

The fact of the matter is that selling an expensive boat can be a time intensive process. It's not unusual to have to show it 30+ times...that's a lot of phone calls, a lot of driving, a lot of logistics. Your data sample of one, of selling your own boat, is meaningless.

A good broker (and there are good brokers, OK brokers, and worthless brokers) will:
- Have the market data and industry expertise to properly price the boat, including having recent sales data for similar boats
- Be familiar with competing boats on the market and how to market your particular boat against them
- Have the reach and network to find the right buyer who is willing and able to pay the right price
- Know the current market and outlook well enough to balance list price against time-on-market
- Show the boat to prospective buyers, often dozens of times
- Manage the transaction, including handling taxes, title transfer, escrow, etc.

I can pretty much guarantee you that a broker will get more money for your boat than you will, and most of the time probably cover the commission cost out of that higher price. If they don't, they're not doing their job well.

By all means sell your own boat. If it's a $200,000 boat, you probably would have made more money working overtime at your job than the money you saved on brokerage commission. It goes without saying that the less income you have the more sense it makes to try and sell your own boat. But that's your individual circumstance. People who own $200,000 boats generally don't have the time to dick around selling their own boats.

As for negotiating the commission percentage, of course that's negotiable. That does not mean however that the specific broker you're talking to will negotiate. Chances are if they are good at their job they won't, and the ones that will are the ones desperate for business. Not sure they are the ones you want to deal with.

The boat brokerage business is not going away anytime soon. It's not like these guys are making a fortune, and they do provide a service that provides value and that people are willing to pay for. Like any service business, some of them are exceptional and some of them suck and most of them are somewhere in the middle.
__________________

__________________
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US Brokerage Sales Slip in January 2011 YADO Dollars & Cents 0 08-02-2011 15:27
Yacht Brokerage- Georgia Inkwell Dollars & Cents 2 31-08-2010 07:19



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.