VAT Refund when Exporting French Flagged Yacht

[Sinkers]

I am about to purchase, in Nice, a French flagged yacht which has VAT paid. I intend to immediately change the flag to Australian flag and will then export the boat to Australia in the near future. Can anybody tell me if the VAT is refundable and how to go about obtaining this VAT refund. Are there any other requirements i.e. how much time is allowed before the boat must leave EU waters. Also what %age is French VAT? Thanks for your help
Sinkers

[meyermm]

Unable to help but refund from French no matter what the law is will be an interesting project. Book material maybe

[s/v Moondancer]

No refund unless this is a new boat and it is to be exported out of the EU.

[edsailing]

Agree - no refund possible once VAT paid. If you buy in EU new, and it is exported, no VAT is payable

[boatman61]

No VAT refunds mate....

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No VAT refunds mate....

No VAT refunds on second hand boats , you didn't pay any VAT so why should you get it back. ! You merely bought a 2nd hand boat for a price.

Save

[Barra]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No VAT refunds on second hand boats , you didn't pay any VAT so why should you get it back. ! You merely bought a 2nd hand boat for a price.

Save

He is actually pating a part of the VAT in the purchase price he pays for a tax paid euro boat when you think about it. He then imports it back to Australia maybe and the poor bugger then pays GST on the part of the VAT hes paid in the purchase price and then customs whack their 5% on top of the lot.

A tax on a tax on a friggin tax!

im looking at the same thing currently with the euro so weak and while its a long shot im hoping theres a loophole where justice can prevail....

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

He is actually pating a part of the VAT in the purchase price he pays for a tax paid euro boat when you think about it. He then imports it back to Australia maybe and the poor bugger then pays GST on the part of the VAT hes paid in the purchase price and then customs whack their 5% on top of the lot.

A tax on a tax on a friggin tax!

im looking at the same thing currently with the euro so weak and while its a long shot im hoping theres a loophole where justice can prevail....

Nope no nada,VAT is a transaction tax not an asset tax. There's no VAT in a second hand boat. It's just a price you pay.

Dave

[Barra]

Thats right the VAT adds to the cost of the transaction to the original owner. They then try and recover as much of that as they can when they resell (i know that cos im in the process of buying) and then used boat buyers like myself pay GST if we import back to oz.

Im wondering though since im effectivly buying a taxed boat in france and when i import to oz im taxed there too can i at least sail the boat in both jurisdictions unfettered ie for tax is it a multinational now?

ie if i was to take a punt on the somali pirates and head back to the med in a few years would i at least be able to sail my french VAT and oz GST paid boat there for as long as i wanted?

seems only fair as otherwise im going to be taxed on a boat i reimport back into europe again later...?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Barra

Thats right the VAT adds to the cost of the transaction to the original owner. They then try and recover as much of that as they can when they resell (i know that cos im in the process of buying) and then used boat buyers like myself pay GST if we import back to oz.

Im wondering though since im effectivly buying a taxed boat in france and when i import to oz im taxed there too can i at least sail the boat in both jurisdictions unfettered ie for tax is it a multinational now?

ie if i was to take a punt on the somali pirates and head back to the med in a few years would i at least be able to sail my french VAT and oz GST paid boat there for as long as i wanted?

seems only fair as otherwise im going to be taxed on a boat i reimport back into europe again later...?

Removing the boat from the Eu is deemed to be exporting it. VAT iis technically due on the transaction called "importing " it again. Hence the answer is no , you would be subject to VAT.

There is a concession called Returned Goods Relief. Where as long as the asset isn't sold outside the EU you can return within 3-5 years ( extendable) without vat being due again. But I don't think it's available to non EU tax residents. In your case since you live outside the EU, the removal of the asset is deemed as export.

As an aside for the average EU punter ( ie not a vat registered person) VAT doesn't exist. What you buy is the retail price ie that is the value of the boat when you sell it second hand it has a second hand value. VAT is not a separate entity.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

that would be correct,so make sure you get hold of the vat certificate,so if you ever sell the boat and it is returned to eu waters is keeps its vat paid status.

Nope. See my explanation. vAT is not an asset tax it's a transaction tax.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Nope. See my explanation. vAT is not an asset tax it's a transaction tax.

correct for a non eu resident,though would be interesting for a eu resident who bought an imported eu vessel in aus?
if they still had the old vat certificate and say a uk flag

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

correct for a non eu resident,though would be interesting for a eu resident who bought an imported eu vessel in aus?
if they still had the old vat certificate and say a uk flag

The rules in that case are clear. The vessel changed hands outside the EU, VAT is due immediately the Eu resident imports the boat.

Say I sold my boat to an Australian. Then I buy it back in aus. I pay vat on the new sales price again. There are many situations were VAT is paid SEVERAL times on the transactions associated with the same asset.

On the other hand if I as a Eu resident take my vat paid boat say to the US for three years and then I return her home, I can avail of returned goods relief to avoid paying VAT on its reimport.

Dave

[atoll]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The rules in that case are clear. The vessel changed hands outside the EU, VAT is due immediately the Eu resident imports the boat.

Say I sold my boat to an Australian. Then I buy it back in aus. I pay vat on the new sales price again. There are many situations were VAT is paid SEVERAL times on the transactions associated with the same asset.

On the other hand if I as a Eu resident take my vat paid boat say to the US for three years and then I return her home, I can avail of returned goods relief to avoid paying VAT on its reimport.

Dave

so as happens a lot,an eu resident sells their vat paid boat in turkey to another eu resident,vat is payable again on the sale?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

so as happens a lot,an eu resident sells their vat paid boat in turkey to another eu resident,vat is payable again on the sale?

Yes absolutely. VAT is payable immediately on import into the EU based on the value of the boat at the point of import People have got around it by basically claiming the sale took place In the EU but that's cheating