US Culture - How to Make an Offer ?

[muskoka]

I don't think you should think twice about "offending the vendor". Nor would I pay any attention to "$xxxxxx, FIRM".

As a seller, I'd much rather get a low bid than no bid. If it's too low, then "Thanks, but we won't sell at that price". Sellers who get their noses bent out of joint often close the door on further negotiations. And they're often the ones who withdraw their listing in a huff and end up selling months later for less. Boats don't appreciate with time.

Decide what works for you and make your offer. Be polite but firm. You're trying to meet your needs not solve the vendors problems.

PS - Your most powerful negotiating tools are your chequebook and your feet. Be slow to write a cheque and quick to walk!

[avb3]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Does this include if:
A - the boat is registered in another jurisdiction (say Canada)?"
Florida can tell you tht on their web site. If the boat is registered elsewhere--Florida still says "90 days then pay up!' AFAIK. On i the boat is registered outside of the US? It becomces more like "Boy, you do have a cruising permit for that boat, don't you? Or else, we'll have to seize it for illegal entry now."

I went to their website before I asked the question, but it is not exactly clear on the issue.

I didn't know about the cruising permit... thought the person (me) would have to clear immigration, but thought the boat was a different matter.

I'm not presenting any of this as dead fact--just warning you this is the kind of stuf to expect, and to make sure you DO get the exact, current, and specific dead facts before you start buying a boat.

Good advice, and regardless of comments here, the key word is "current".

[jacob30]

If you decide to leave before the 90 days and not pay the Florida sales tax. There is a form, a small fee and a sticker you will receive to display with the date of expiration of the 90 days. Also, no one is going around checking so I would not sweat it if you are over the 90 days.

[andreas.mehlin]

Thanks for all the advice!

Is it me or the former owner who shall delete the boat from the register?
When I have purchased the boat where shall I go for paper work? (customs, port captain? etc.?). Shall I go there before or after I have received the boat registration papers from Sweden?

[David_Old_Jersey]

From my experiance of dealing with Americans (albeit no boat purchase) is that attitudes vary - same way as everywhere else

Some will be offended by some things that other's won't be.

[webejammin]

We bought our Gemini last year out of San Diago and we got our own broker to represent us, this does not cost anymore sence the selling broker and your broker split the comission. We felt better having someone who knows us and protected our intrest with knowing boat surveyers and hall out ports for inspections. Get to know someone who has owned or crused on a simular boat be it monohull or multi-hull. It's like buying a house in the states lots of documents, taxes or no taxes, taken ownership off shore requires a licenced captian and some brokers have there licence Arranging temp moorage. Our broker traveled almost 2000 miles for our deal from Seattle to San Diago, of corse he did some advertising putting out sail ties with his company name on it. We never saw the owners broker, I did talk to him on the phone while doing the deal, he was on vacation
There's a bunch of hungry brokers out there in today's market that would be glad to split the money.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by jacob30

Also, no one is going around checking so I would not sweat it if you are over the 90 days.

Uh... Actually there are a few places where they DO go around and check.

[capttman]

Offer what ever the boat is worth to you, the owner can say yes or no, I've said no a lot never offended but laugh sometimes.

[Ti' Punch]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to enlist the aid of a buyer's broker, as Webejammin suggested. It would be worth it to have a knowledgeable person help with the paperwork. I believe they would also do a title search for you, which you should have done.

[bobofthenorth]

If you are really offering what its worth to you then who cares if the buyer is offended. If on the other hand you are prepared to pay the asking price and your offer is just a ploy to save some money then you may want to keep the owner in the game. Personally I come in with what its worth to me and let the chips fall where they will. I've had sellers effectively tell me to go to H and I've also made lowball purchases. I frankly couldn't care less what the seller thinks of my offer. The most important quality in a buyer is patience. Do your homework, don't fall in love and remember that if you don't get this one another one will come along.

[S/V Antares]

Also look in Marinas for expired registrations and get the owners numbers from the Marina. Lots of unloved boats or estate boats in FL. Some folks have just given up.

[minaret]

Instead of using a buyer's broker, you can go with a marine documentarian for less money and get much better results. They specialize in the complexities of marine law and documenting, and know far more about it than any broker. My first documentarian Mr. Kim, is used for documentation arcana and complicated marine law issues by the Coast Gaurd. However, I can't recommend him unless you know him personally or are a commercial vessel, he spends too much time in big commercial jobs to have real time for small fry like us. I now use Callie Van Ness at Pacific Maritime Title for boat purchases. She is great. I'm sure you could find the equivalant in FL, or use one from anywhere really. They don't need to be there, it's all phone calls and e-mail or snail mail anyway. The one way you can be sure not to have unknown legal issues arise IMHO. They can also help put together a bulletproof contract for you.

[ty.gregory]

Originally Posted by minaret

Instead of using a buyer's broker, you can go with a marine documentarian for less money and get much better results. They specialize in the complexities of marine law and documenting, and know far more about it than any broker. My first documentarian Mr. Kim, is used for documentation arcana and complicated marine law issues by the Coast Gaurd. However, I can't recommend him unless you know him personally or are a commercial vessel, he spends too much time in big commercial jobs to have real time for small fry like us. I now use Callie Van Ness at Pacific Maritime Title for boat purchases. She is great. I'm sure you could find the equivalant in FL, or use one from anywhere really. They don't need to be there, it's all phone calls and e-mail or snail mail anyway. The one way you can be sure not to have unknown legal issues arise IMHO. They can also help put together a bulletproof contract for you.

Interesting info there, thank you, Minaret. I like the bulletproof contract you mention as the ability to make sure there are no leans on the boat is obviously an important one. I am a beginner in the boat purchasing arena, and this part of the deal may be the scariest aspect. It is definetly the part I least understand. Would you recommend a novice boat buyer getting both a buyer's broker and a "marine documentarian"? Man, if I had known there were such things as Marine Documentarians in the world I may have changed my answer when asked what I wanted to be when I grow up-- "A Fireman" Little side humor there, anyway, thank you for any more insight on this matter!

[hellosailor]

"Uh... Actually there are a few places where they DO go around and check. "
Actually FloriDUH (as several of the prominent local papers call it) claims they can't even track expired auto insurance, that's way too complicated even though a number of other states have done it automatically for decades.
But...it would be easy enough to say "Gee, RubberDuck at the Dismal Marina was given a sticker 91 days ago, I think I'll stop by and check on my way home."
And failing to remove the boat or pay the tax in a timely manner, might be the kind of criminal violation that could get a visa pulled, vessel seized, and cruising permit revoked. A VERY EXPENSIVE MISTAKE.
Fortunately there's casino gambling in the insular Indian Nations in Florida, for those who really want to gamble and win big. Sales tax is just chump change.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by ty.gregory

Would you recommend a novice boat buyer getting both a buyer's broker and a "marine documentarian"?

For a novice buyer, no, but for a novice boater, maybe. If you know what you want for your needs you don't need a buyers broker. All of the listings are on the internet, search till you find what you need. Talk to a documentarian beforehand, and when it comes time to make an offer have the broker send all docs to the documentarian instead of you. This will let him know you are not to be fooled around with and have pro legal help, also that you are a serious buyer with experience. The documentarian will be able to tell you right away if what you are looking at is a standard doc for an offer to purchase, with or without any suspect loopholes, and will be able to suggest any changes you might want made before signing. When you are past all the early stages of document exchange they can help you federally document the vessel with the coastguard or keep it in state, import or export, etc etc. My last purchase was for a 300k vessel (my present ride), it cost me about $900 for the title services. I am federally documented. This included the docs on my trade in to the broker, so it was really documentation on two sales. They do a title check for liens and the like as a matter of course. Most brokers use them as well for more complicated/sizeable deals. All the local brokers I spoke to immediately knew my documentarian, and had respect.