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Old 17-09-2011, 20:47   #196
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Gotta nice ring to it..The United States Of Europe..then..The United States Of Aisa..then one day when we are all gone ...The (four) United States Of The World Union..and all this time I thought that old WWII vet Preacher of mine was crazy..shake down for a one world government

Fortunately that will never happen, well not for a few thousand years anyway... in spite of John Lennon's dope head songs...
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Old 17-09-2011, 21:30   #197
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Re: The Market Has Turned

scroodis....i am going to go sailing. anyone wanna join me....
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Old 17-09-2011, 22:49   #198
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Right on Zee!
Let's leave this crap to the Wall street journal.
A wise person once said that "the purpose of financial forecasting was to make astrology look respectable"
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Old 17-09-2011, 23:30   #199
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Re: The Market Has Turned

Anybody look in a mirror lately? We're living a hodgepodge one world kaotic steering commitee (government), the players just haven't all come out from behind the curtain yet. Somebody help us all if we deserve it! A big question. I'm with the girls except I just got a job to help the kitty

Life is nothing if not interesting! I'm just glad I don't have enough money to worry about it...as long as I can pay my use taxes for what I do have...sail on!
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Old 17-09-2011, 23:40   #200
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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scroodis....i am going to go sailing. anyone wanna join me....
Can I come too?
Promise I'll shut up completely...
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Old 18-09-2011, 03:58   #201
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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I don't believe Greece will default or leave the Eurozone. If it did the resulting fallout would take out the Eurozone and Germany with it, not to mention the US ad well. There's a reason the US Treasury Secretary was here yesterday.

Beleive me if this doomsday comes to pass the last thing on your mind will be buying and selling boats , more likely whether you should be armed doing the shopping.

Dave

Greece will "default", not as bad as it sounds (everyone gets there moneyback - just a question of when ), but not painless either (plenty of knock on effects, lots of vested interests will hurt ($$$ wise), might even lose a bank or 2 (but that probably a good thing)..... but nothing that will break the Euro / EU.............Greece will still need EU cash flow funding for the next 5 years whilst they fix their economy, but that has an end date and is quantifiable! (and is the tool to make sure the Greeks actually do what they promised - and sign up to some form of Eurozone wide financial standards and monitoring......and everyone (Greeks & Market) are made clear that if Greece does not play ball (and carries on spending money regardless) then they do get cut off financially from the EU (apart from humanitarian Aid), that the Greek Debts have SFA to do with the EU - and Greece can go proper broke (IMF) and it can do that in whatever currency it wants to.

There will be a lot of whinging and whining from "the market", but they have a very short attention span and if a few more banks go broke, then f#ck 'em - Liquidation instead of bail out.

Greece will never leave the Euro (just in case the EU money gets switched off). IMO more likely that the northern European countries will leave the Euro............As the Dutch Finance Minister said to the US Treasury Secretary "if you think you can solve a debt crisis by borrowing even more - then you are a complete f#cking idiot" (I paraphrase ).

And the Greek "rescue" Model is something that can be rolled out accross the Eurozone, markets like certainty.

In any event the Eurozone has not yet pressed the QE (Printing press) button, unlike the US and UK. A few Trillion of free Euros would solve a few problems .....but IMO simply not neccessary.

Going forward the EU does need to look at the rules and regulations under which the bank / financial institutions operate (I would favour a 5 year 10% "bail out tax" ).


Finally, one BIG difference between the US and the European:-

a) the last time the US economy ran out of money / collapsed they got The Depression.

b) but the Europeans also got Hitler. and half of them then got Stalin and his successors for 40 odd years. and even on the "free" side, Portugal, Spain and Greece got murderous Fascist Dictatorships (supported of course by the usual peace loving democratic suspects ).

The Europeans (especially Germany ) are very well aware of how things could go (Europeans are brilliant at killing people - especially each other .....cable TV and microwave ovens don't change that fundamental, they just mean we don't)..........The EU / Eurozone can never move quickly (indeed, that is part of it's success) - but will get there in the end, and in 5 years time will be all the stronger for it (certainly the rules & regs will be! - the Germans will make damned sure ).
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Old 18-09-2011, 10:26   #202
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Greece will "default", not as bad as it sounds (everyone gets there moneyback - just a question of when ), but not painless either (plenty of knock on effects, lots of vested interests will hurt ($$$ wise), might even lose a bank or 2 (but that probably a good thing)..... but nothing that will break the Euro / EU.............Greece will still need EU cash flow funding for the next 5 years whilst they fix their economy, but that has an end date and is quantifiable! (and is the tool to make sure the Greeks actually do what they promised - and sign up to some form of Eurozone wide financial standards and monitoring......and everyone (Greeks & Market) are made clear that if Greece does not play ball (and carries on spending money regardless) then they do get cut off financially from the EU (apart from humanitarian Aid), that the Greek Debts have SFA to do with the EU - and Greece can go proper broke (IMF) and it can do that in whatever currency it wants to.

There will be a lot of whinging and whining from "the market", but they have a very short attention span and if a few more banks go broke, then f#ck 'em - Liquidation instead of bail out.

Greece will never leave the Euro (just in case the EU money gets switched off). IMO more likely that the northern European countries will leave the Euro............As the Dutch Finance Minister said to the US Treasury Secretary "if you think you can solve a debt crisis by borrowing even more - then you are a complete f#cking idiot" (I paraphrase ).

And the Greek "rescue" Model is something that can be rolled out accross the Eurozone, markets like certainty.

In any event the Eurozone has not yet pressed the QE (Printing press) button, unlike the US and UK. A few Trillion of free Euros would solve a few problems .....but IMO simply not neccessary.

Going forward the EU does need to look at the rules and regulations under which the bank / financial institutions operate (I would favour a 5 year 10% "bail out tax" ).


Finally, one BIG difference between the US and the European:-

a) the last time the US economy ran out of money / collapsed they got The Depression.

b) but the Europeans also got Hitler. and half of them then got Stalin and his successors for 40 odd years. and even on the "free" side, Portugal, Spain and Greece got murderous Fascist Dictatorships (supported of course by the usual peace loving democratic suspects ).

The Europeans (especially Germany ) are very well aware of how things could go (Europeans are brilliant at killing people - especially each other .....cable TV and microwave ovens don't change that fundamental, they just mean we don't)..........The EU / Eurozone can never move quickly (indeed, that is part of it's success) - but will get there in the end, and in 5 years time will be all the stronger for it (certainly the rules & regs will be! - the Germans will make damned sure ).
Could not of said it any better...I dont like John Lennon..give me Mick Jagger any day..you dont have to be on dope to figure this stuff out,read the Washington Post and The China Daily,if you have nerves of steel...The wall street "Journy" is for sissys..Zee and Boatman that sh$% is scarey aint it..ha ha ha..DVC
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:34   #203
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Re: The Market Has Turned

Whether they are printing in the USA or bailing in the Euro - either way they are robbing the middle class to pay useless debt ( but not pay it down).
I agree with the possibility of a Balkan style financial collapse - but also that class/ethnic war could also happen - it always does doesn't it?
But who knows I'm anchored in NYC everything is fine here. Perhaps they will rectify all these financial problems.
But, I there is default, food riots etc - this is not the black swan - not for many as we are prepared.
I think a safe, prosperous, booming country such as Australia is where a severe financial catastrophe could occur. Perhaps china will come over and manage those mines...
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:39   #204
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

b) but the Europeans also got Hitler. and half of them then got Stalin and his successors for 40 odd years. and even on the "free" side, Portugal, Spain and Greece got murderous Fascist Dictatorships (supported of course by the usual peace loving democratic suspects ).


).
The US now has a narcissist backed by "the usual peace loving democratic suspects".

He is systematically enhancing the power of the Executive Branch and removing the power of the other two.

Stay tuned.
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:46   #205
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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The US now has a narcissist backed by "the usual peace loving democratic suspects".

He is systematically enhancing the power of the Executive Branch and removing the power of the other two.

Stay tuned.
Didn't that moatly start post 911?
I don't believe any party or so called leader has any effect
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:49   #206
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Whether they are printing in the USA or bailing in the Euro - either way they are robbing the middle class to pay useless debt ( but not pay it down).
I agree with the possibility of a Balkan style financial collapse - but also that class/ethnic war could also happen - it always does doesn't it?
But who knows I'm anchored in NYC everything is fine here. Perhaps they will rectify all these financial problems.
But, I there is default, food riots etc - this is not the black swan - not for many as we are prepared.
I think a safe, prosperous, booming country such as Australia is where a severe financial catastrophe could occur. Perhaps china will come over and manage those mines...
The good thing about selling ones country to China or anybody else is that if its good for the goose its good for the gander..when Mr. Mao took over from the Gumantang gov. they took all concestions from the likes of oil cos.,mining cos,and other western investments..good thing about real estate is they cant take it with them..thats why America dosent have a problem with others buying into our country..piss us off and we freeze your "ass"ets, same as anywhere else I guess..DVC
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Old 18-09-2011, 11:54   #207
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Re: The Market Has Turned

The subject has become politics not boat market. Thread closed.
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