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Old 14-09-2011, 07:45   #166
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Originally Posted by welshdiver View Post
Sounds like you just require the "right" person or couple to run it for you, first of all what do you do ? I owned a water sports Centre in uk & also found some "idiot staff" that didn't last long. But I also found 5 gr8t staff & was able to leave one man in charge & he run it like it was his own company but I had to pay the right money for that person, but it was well worth it at the time, but had to close due to the building being sold.
I ended up going to Croatia to work & running a dive centre there for a season
So I was lucky to have a good boss after I had run my own place.
So all i am saying is there are people who can run things for you the way you want it run !!!
Why should he give away a profitable company just for the right to come back and work as an employee ... MAYBE? What if he decides he doesn't want to come back and work, or for health reasons they cannot, or the new guy gets run over by a truck, etc, etc. Too many variable, too much risk for too little return. Financially, just not a good a wise move in my opinion.
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Old 14-09-2011, 08:23   #167
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Re: The Market Has Turned

Asking price and selling price are two different animals. When you find a boat you really really want. Bid about 20% under the asking price. There may be some haggling. And after sea trials you may even be able to low ball the bid some more, due to all of the faults and needed repairs that are found on the vessel.
Since I've bought my boat, quite a few more ignored maintenance problems have showed up... But over all I'm satisfied with the S/V Rapture.
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Old 14-09-2011, 09:21   #168
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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If you're looking sub-30K you needn't really bother with a broker. They're less than stoked about dealing in that price range because there's generally not much in it for them. You'd have much better luck on Craigslist. A guy at work just parted with his Catalina 30 for $17K, sold it on Craigslist. Hard to get a good deal on a sub $30K broker listed boat because they still take like $4k commission, which comes out of the sellers pocket. Not that they aren't out there, just most people who really need to sell are on Craigslist.

There's an Ericson 26 here in SB right now listed at $10K, with a working Norcold fridge.

JRM
That is valuable . . . Thanks. I guess the only other administrative hurdle is getting a (Good) survey and clear title.
The other question left is valuating the boat I want. My guess I will be pretty savy on values by next May.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
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Old 16-09-2011, 03:15   #169
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Re: The Market Has Turned

EuroZone is in big trouble. Italian and Spanish bonds debt crosses more than 500billion $. Greece default certain to 98%, no amount of bailout will save that country. sorry to say that. Argentina which had gone through some real bad patch in the past says Greece should just default big time.
WSJ economists put 50/50 odds that at least one country will quit euozone in the next two years.
and what if Germany comes out? it will have the world's strongest currency, though its another story that their exports will get whacked badly.
Gossip doing rounds is how people miss the good old Deutsche Marks because it resembles the current day Swiss Francs

French and German head of states are just talking positive to give positive vibes to people, making the right noises i,e, but the truth is that whole eurozone is in a deep financial crises that normal people like us havent come to know of yet.

the three major french banks - Societe Generale, Agricole, BNP have accumulated debts around 4.5 trillion dollar which 250% of the country's GDP compared to US's three major banks total of around 5.5 trillion dollars of debt which is just 39% of GDP. French have invested heavily in the italian and spanish bonds. if either of the country's (i.e. italy or spain) bonds tank it will surely take the French along.

Angela Morkel who was very positive for a Greek bailout till a while back may now be thinking otherwise due to resistance from German population - why should their hard earned money go into a bottomless pit?

IMF has asked BRIC to commit finances. india could pledge only 13 billion dollar. mind you its just a pledge not ratified so far.
I am wondering is even if the world's resources are pooled in together, will it be able to save the Eurozone from the current crises? I doubt. because consensus is not there in the first place.

so everybody is left to speculate :-)
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Old 16-09-2011, 05:37   #170
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Re: The Market Has Turned

Quote:
Originally Posted by storyinframes View Post
EuroZone is in big trouble. Italian and Spanish bonds debt crosses more than 500billion $. Greece default certain to 98%, no amount of bailout will save that country. sorry to say that. Argentina which had gone through some real bad patch in the past says Greece should just default big time.
WSJ economists put 50/50 odds that at least one country will quit euozone in the next two years.
and what if Germany comes out? it will have the world's strongest currency, though its another story that their exports will get whacked badly.
Gossip doing rounds is how people miss the good old Deutsche Marks because it resembles the current day Swiss Francs

French and German head of states are just talking positive to give positive vibes to people, making the right noises i,e, but the truth is that whole eurozone is in a deep financial crises that normal people like us havent come to know of yet.

the three major french banks - Societe Generale, Agricole, BNP have accumulated debts around 4.5 trillion dollar which 250% of the country's GDP compared to US's three major banks total of around 5.5 trillion dollars of debt which is just 39% of GDP. French have invested heavily in the italian and spanish bonds. if either of the country's (i.e. italy or spain) bonds tank it will surely take the French along.

Angela Morkel who was very positive for a Greek bailout till a while back may now be thinking otherwise due to resistance from German population - why should their hard earned money go into a bottomless pit?

IMF has asked BRIC to commit finances. india could pledge only 13 billion dollar. mind you its just a pledge not ratified so far.
I am wondering is even if the world's resources are pooled in together, will it be able to save the Eurozone from the current crises? I doubt. because consensus is not there in the first place.

so everybody is left to speculate :-)
So easy to fix,, Give the CEO's millions in bonuses, Pour buckets of money into bankrupt companys,

2008 Fixed again, Hahahahahahaha
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Old 16-09-2011, 06:30   #171
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Re: The Market Has Turned

It was very obvious in 2008 that all that was happening was the huge private sector debt was being baled out and moved onto the government's Balance Sheet (also known as the BS ).
I guess the assumption was that governments would be big enough to absorb it and ride out the crisis over time... eons even!

Now the buck stops because there is nowhere for governments to pass the debt on to, other than to their citizens again, so the merry go round is complete, and the citizens have to foot the bill, even if they're drowning in debt by the millions.

There'd be more than a few sauerkrauts at having to fund the Greek salad days...
Methinks that's coming to an end...
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Old 16-09-2011, 06:53   #172
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Re: The Market Has Turned

This market "turned" issue only really matters if you are trying to sell your boat and NOT get a another.

If market is slow you get less for your current boat, but spend less on the replacement. So same net cost difference.

If you are a new buyer, things look good for you.

If getting out of boating you are screwed and have to take a price reducation.
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Old 16-09-2011, 07:19   #173
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Re: The Market Has Turned

Quote:
Originally Posted by storyinframes View Post
EuroZone is in big trouble. Italian and Spanish bonds debt crosses more than 500billion $. Greece default certain to 98%, no amount of bailout will save that country. sorry to say that. Argentina which had gone through some real bad patch in the past says Greece should just default big time.
WSJ economists put 50/50 odds that at least one country will quit euozone in the next two years.
and what if Germany comes out? it will have the world's strongest currency, though its another story that their exports will get whacked badly.
Gossip doing rounds is how people miss the good old Deutsche Marks because it resembles the current day Swiss Francs

French and German head of states are just talking positive to give positive vibes to people, making the right noises i,e, but the truth is that whole eurozone is in a deep financial crises that normal people like us havent come to know of yet.

the three major french banks - Societe Generale, Agricole, BNP have accumulated debts around 4.5 trillion dollar which 250% of the country's GDP compared to US's three major banks total of around 5.5 trillion dollars of debt which is just 39% of GDP. French have invested heavily in the italian and spanish bonds. if either of the country's (i.e. italy or spain) bonds tank it will surely take the French along.

Angela Morkel who was very positive for a Greek bailout till a while back may now be thinking otherwise due to resistance from German population - why should their hard earned money go into a bottomless pit?

IMF has asked BRIC to commit finances. india could pledge only 13 billion dollar. mind you its just a pledge not ratified so far.
I am wondering is even if the world's resources are pooled in together, will it be able to save the Eurozone from the current crises? I doubt. because consensus is not there in the first place.

so everybody is left to speculate :-)
According to this Why Europe has only a month to solve debt crisis - CNN.com we will know in about a month.
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Old 16-09-2011, 08:11   #174
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Re: The Market Has Turned

It is instructive to go back 13 months to page 1 of this thread and see the misplaced optimism that the market had bottomed out. Not yet! The middle class squeeze has continued across the Americas and Europe, and will continue as western politics continue to forbid rational discussions of income inequalities. This squeeze has obviously lead to a glut in the <$30,000 sailboat market as the middle class dumps the non-essentials. (I cannot speak at the power boat market.) My view is that prices are depressed up to perhaps $200,000 valuations, and I am certain this is a permanent shift. I assume that several more manufacturers will be in bankruptcy within the next 13 months. For some sunnier news - check out the latest issue of "Mega Yachts" to see how the "other 1%" lives.
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Old 16-09-2011, 14:19   #175
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Re: The Market Has Turned

I like the 1% they pay my bills..Poor people have nothing I want..
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Old 16-09-2011, 14:45   #176
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Originally Posted by storyinframes View Post
EuroZone is in big trouble. Italian and Spanish bonds debt crosses more than 500billion $. Greece default certain to 98%, no amount of bailout will save that country. sorry to say that. Argentina which had gone through some real bad patch in the past says Greece should just default big time.
WSJ economists put 50/50 odds that at least one country will quit euozone in the next two years.
Well sure, it worked with AIG, why not screw a whole country?

Goldman Sachs Shorted Greek Debt After It Arranged Those Shady Swaps
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Old 17-09-2011, 05:22   #177
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I don't believe Greece will default or leave the Eurozone. If it did the resulting fallout would take out the Eurozone and Germany with it, not to mention the US ad well. There's a reason the US Treasury Secretary was here yesterday.

Beleive me if this doomsday comes to pass the last thing on your mind will be buying and selling boats , more likely whether you should be armed doing the shopping.

Dave
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Old 17-09-2011, 05:55   #178
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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I don't believe Greece will default or leave the Eurozone. If it did the resulting fallout would take out the Eurozone and Germany with it, not to mention the US ad well. There's a reason the US Treasury Secretary was here yesterday.

Beleive me if this doomsday comes to pass the last thing on your mind will be buying and selling boats , more likely whether you should be armed doing the shopping.

Dave
Something has got to give. This can't go on forever.
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Old 17-09-2011, 06:13   #179
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pirate Re: The Market Has Turned

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
It was very obvious in 2008 that all that was happening was the huge private sector debt was being baled out and moved onto the government's Balance Sheet (also known as the BS ).
I guess the assumption was that governments would be big enough to absorb it and ride out the crisis over time... eons even!

Now the buck stops because there is nowhere for governments to pass the debt on to, other than to their citizens again, so the merry go round is complete, and the citizens have to foot the bill, even if they're drowning in debt by the millions.

There'd be more than a few sauerkrauts at having to fund the Greek salad days...
Methinks that's coming to an end...
Well... here in Europe the under 9m secondhand market has not altered at all... prices are pretty much what they were pre-crash....
Thought I'd mention that... might be someone here with less than $1m....
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Old 17-09-2011, 06:29   #180
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Re: The Market Has Turned

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Well... here in Europe the under 9m secondhand market has not altered at all... prices are pretty much what they were pre-crash....
Thought I'd mention that... might be someone here with less than $1m....

Very droll, Boatman

Sometimes you really crack me up...
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