The Cost of Sailing / Cruising

[Kratch]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Whatever you've got and then some.

Which effectively translates to "beyond your means" or "more then you can afford". Is that really the answer you intended to give?

[John A]

Kratch,
I'm sorry that we couldn't answer your question with the results you expected. ie. how much will it cost to do what I want to do? When the truth is somewhere in that fuzzy area of 'it depends'.
I notice that you've just joined this forum, with a total of 5 post all within this thread.
Welcome!
Note that the definition of forum is a meeting for public discussion.
Please realize that the forum members come from all walks of life as well as all countries of the world. When you ask for information or, God forbid, an opinion, the answers will reflect this diversity.
Again a heart felt welcome, as I know that you'll make a positive contribution to this forum.
regards John

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Kratch

Which effectively translates to "beyond your means" or "more then you can afford". Is that really the answer you intended to give?

It's not a matter of "means" or "affordabilty". It's a matter of how great ones desire to go cruising is. First step is to get a boat, any boat, then you will understand my somewhat tongue in cheek post of "whatever you've got and then some". Have a nice day.

[jm21]

Part of the problem comes from the boat being mobile, so if you're cruising you can't predict prices as well as if you were looking at a single city. And there are large variances between boats that make maintenance costs unpredictable, as well as extremely differing views of what a well-maintained boat is. As an example, my parents replaced several windows and hatches on their boat due to some scratches on them. That involved many hours of work and the cost was similar to the asking price of a boat I am looking at.

The other part of the problem is that most people on this board appear to regard cruising as part or all vacation. They are not looking at it as just living on a boat for a year or 10. It's a lot easier to say how much it costs to live in Toronto for a month than it is to say how much it costs to take a vacation to Chicago.

If you want a straight answer you'd probably have to provide a lot of details.

[c-kow]

Kratch, if you want to own a boat you're going to find a way to make it work. Don't let these peeps scare you off. It can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you make it out to be, just keep in mind that there are upkeep costs and you can't just leave it in the slip and expect it to stay in the same shape.

[Kratch]

Originally Posted by John A

Kratch,
I'm sorry that we couldn't answer your question with the results you expected. ie. how much will it cost to do what I want to do? When the truth is somewhere in that fuzzy area of 'it depends'.

But your mistaken, the question was answered (for me) by SV Third Day and Hub3. And to demonstrate, I'll show you how (and it may give an idea why I got so defensive when people kept telling me it wasn't a question that could be answered)....Hub3 (post 116) suggested a range of $500-3000 for a regular cruiser (not a beautiful people cruiser.. a reasonable assumption given money has been shown to be a concern by the very asking of the question). This range averages out to about $1,750. Looking at Hub3's personal budget of $1000-1200, it is a fair bit lower then the average of the range given, but he explains his personal lifestyle, and the sacrifices he's chosen to make or not make to provide a context on why it comes bellow the average given by his range. Looking at SV Third Days personal budget, he often comes in around $1900-2000 (after removing significant boat costs/repairs, which, while need to be accounted for, don't really come in as a monthly budget, as they are typically one time costs), which is slightly above the average of Hub3's range, but as SV did have a lot of refitting costs, had additional work related costs and included personal luxuries in their budget (it's their budget, of course they would), this helps account for the descrepancy. These tells me the cost of living will likely average out to about $1500-2000/month for cruising (not hanging out in Toronto harbor), before I apply my personal requirements (and SV's budget helps me to further investigate the costs once I get closer to the time I need to lock down a personal budget). This generalization of $1500-2000, while not accurate (in that it does not give me specifics for where I'm going), can help me ballpark on how much of my paycheck I should be saving, and for approximately how long I'll need to be saving that amount, in order to take a cruising trip of approximately X length. For example, after accounting for personal budget concerns, if my ballpark comes in around $2200/month, and I want to go away for 6 months, I will need (not including emergency repair funds) approximately $13,200, and knowing my salary, that would account for %50 of my pay over an 8 month period.

The problem now is that some people still insist the question can't be answered, despite the answer sitting right there in front of us (the real problem is that many don't actually understand the question being asked. Noone is asking you to build us a budget, we are looking for some kind of financial example to put things into context, with city living it would be typical rent, cost of grocheries, utilities, transportation needs, etc).

Originally Posted by John A

I notice that you've just joined this forum, with a total of 5 post all within this thread.
Welcome!

Thanks, it's a shame I decided to chime in on a topic so controversial to introduce myself.

[sailorboy1]

I've had my hand is this whole. but now it's time to say:

lets lighten up!!! :-)

[Lady Circumnavi]

I've read all these posts with interest. Kratch needs to ask himself is he has the mental toughness to go sailing, the emotional stability to cross an ocean, the self possesion to live in a small space and the tenacity to start reading, listening and educating himself about seamanship instead of spending time arguing with people who are trying to help him.

From his posts, he seems argumentative and defensive and nit-picky. That's not compatible with a lifestyle that requires you to roll with the punches, run before the wind, and not smart off to that official who decides he'll keep you quarantined for three days before you can clear in.

He needs to assess what kind of lifestyle he has now and what he wants from cruising. I did it on a shoestring budget after saving money on a teacher's salary to buy a boat and fill the cruising kitty. You can still travel off the beaten (tourist) path even to places as close as the Bahamas and escape high prices. We only tied up to a dock twice in a circumnavigation- in Tahiti and in Capetown. Did we miss anything? I don't think so. All the advice others can offer falls on deaf ears if the person can't answer his own questions: what do I want? What am I looking for?
The least expensive parts of travel, mingling with the natives, watching the sunset, snorkeling a reef, are there for everyone to enjoy, regardless of the size of boat or money in your bank account. Quality of experience cannot be measured in dollars and cents.

[Hud3]

Good answer, Lady Circumnavi.

Especially the part about "rolling with the punches". When you're out there cruising, you just do what you have to do to make it work; to make it fun. Money is somewhat important, but not the driving force. Attitude is everything.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Hud3

Have you read Beth Leonard's book, The Voyager's Handbook? She has a whole section on the cost of cruising, with "high", "mid" and "low" cost senarios. Have you used the CF Google search to research the topic on this site? There's a lot already written on the topic. You're going to have to come up with the answer for yourself, based on your circumstances and needs, but you really won't know the true cost until you get out there and actually do it.

Very good summation. You beat me to the punch on recommending the Leonard book.

As I am preparing for a circ in two or so years, I am spending a lot of money up front specifically to lower my expenses on passage and on anchor. For me, it is disingenuous to pretend that I "magically" have fewer expenses like running the diesel for alternator-made electricity when I've spent ten grand on a solar panel arch, solar panels, a wind generator and the associated gear to make it charge a battery bank four times the size of the average coastal cruiser.

I have also decided recently to purchase a new engine instead of rebuilding the old, as the associated costs aren't wildly different and I get the benefit of the newer technologies, economies and parts availability. This isn't, however, a cheap way to go.

Think of it as I am building a house with triple-depth insulation, so I can heat it with a few candles, I suppose.

The rationale is that by essentially rethinking all boat systems with a view of power conservation and autonomy from the shore, I am trying to reduce the costs I would otherwise incur.

Of course, the other way to achieve this is to emulate the Amish-style sailing of the Pardeys. I bet they don't spend a grand a month, unless it's for holystones and oakum.

EDIT: And just for laughs, my current budget estimate is $20-25K Cdn./year for two adults and a sub-teen on a five- to six-year circ (2012-17) with a $25K refit budget (likely for sails and rigging) at the halfway point during a three-to-six month haulout in New Zealand.

This does not factor in trips home by air, but includes all provisions, materials and entertainment. Realistically, that's about one "night out" ashore per month, and maybe three marina visits per year. The rest would be anchoring.

So yes, I've thought about it, but I've thought more (and spent more) on making the boat itself a fairly self-contained little world, as we aren't going around the world to do the same sort of things we might be doing in Toronto.

[cat man do]

Heres a good article on the costs of cruising and doing it very nice as well.
(hint: I find it hard to read, yellow on blue, so click and swipe text to highlight and change colour, or paste in a word doc)

Long distance cruising - Is it possible on a small budget

I have been keeping check on the prices and guestimate that the $21,000 "small budget" would have blown out to around $27,000 in these waters in aud. (getting better by the minute).

Thats $474 usd/week or $1896/mth

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

As to what I am planning?

$4,000 per month (2009 dollars) on a ~40 foot cat to cruise Asia/Pacific.

You'll be living fairly fine on that budget my friend

[Curmudgeon]

As for the out of pocket costs, I'd take the median figure that the guidebooks recommend and double it. There are always unanticipated expenses. This statement does not come from any cruising experience, just lots of life experience. The same thing happens when you buy a house.

But the real economic cost of cruising is, of course, the opportunity cost. You could have been earning money instead of cruising. Yes, you can work while cruising, especially if you have an Internet connection or work regularly as a delivery skipper. But typically you can earn more as a landlubber.

[Vic de Beer]

Kratch, well done, you stuck to your point and finally managed to extrapolate an answer from convoluted responses..... which answers my question as well... to a degree (see post # 1).
What just did not seem to get across to so many respondents is.... nobody asked for personal financial advice, ....just an idea of what one has to prepare yourself for should you decide to go cruising.....not the cost of getting yourself set up from scratch (which would included boat, insurance etc.)....not alll of that, just a ballpark..... an avarage..... cost of living on boat per year or per month (I also understand that the cost per month can greatly vary as opposed to the cost per year).
To those who got all riled up over having to part with your knowledge..... thanks for the info, but, as said by Don Lucas..... lighten up!!

[Kratch]

Thank you SV Alchemy and cat man do for including additional budgets for comparison. I see, after taking into consideration personal budget choices/concerns (IE, Alchemy's choice to make sacrifices in lifestyle, mooring/marina time, the inclusion of two additional people into the budget (Significant other and sub teen),etc), that these two additional numbers also fit into the $1500-2000 base range I extrapolated above.