The Cost of Sailing / Cruising

[steelfan]

My wife and I live on a 53 foot steel 1990 Bruce Roberts, having sold the house and retired
We started in Malaysia and Thailand in 2006, then travelled via Red Sea to the Med, arriving in April 2007. Then Turkey, Greece and Italy/Spain, we are about to exit via Gib
I record everything we spend by catagory. The boat has averaged 9500 UK pounds and us, 8000 UK pounds; both per year. We do not fish, we have a cheapish meal out about once a week, and a medium priced one on birthdays etc.
The pound fell v the euro when we were in Greece and that has hurt a lot.
We have had a few big items for the boat - new autohelm and its computer, for example, and have used the engine much more than we expected (in Med, about 4x more than planned) with a philosophy that we start up when consistently below 3 knots. Marinas can be absurd in Italy - the highest price we saw was 300 euro a night for our boat. Also many of the so called marinas are badly protected against seas.
Hope this helps
Steelfan

[John A]

The truly "budget cruisier" is still out there, not as numerious or visible as before, but they quietly go about enjoying their chosen lifestyle.
The key word is "chosen", as they chose to live in a style that is not exceptable to alot of cruisiers. You won't see them posting on forums as they don't have a computer nor do they use a internet cafe to send emails to strangers.
I once forced myself to live as cheaply for a month as I could just to see how much it took, I did it on $300, I wouldn't want to do it full-time.
The budget cruisier is quite an eccentric type of cruisier, one who has experienced cruising from a different level. In 2008 I helped a singlerhandler chose and learn to use a handheld GPS to replace his sextant.

John A

We choose to do what we do and that's what makes life interesting. If we were all the same, life would be very boring.

[osirissail]

It's difficult to pre-plan what you will spend realistically. How it is done is to find cruisers out there living the life-style, your age, and size/type boat you would consider living in and the have them add up every dollar, dime, and nickel they spend in a year or two or three and then divide it back to a yearly number. Then you have a realistic idea of people who are in your lifestyle group are actually spending. Cruising World Mag did that a decade or so ago and came up with the 3 categories: low end , medium, high end. It is amazing how the little "nickel, dime" items start adding up to serious dollars over time, like a year.
- - Also the lifestyle choices of the three groups are very different in the apportionment of what constitutes necessary and unnecessary stuff. Younger people are more likely to thrive in a "bare-bones" lifestyle but as we age, either wisdom or the current saying "been there, done that, don't need to do it again" changes our priorities towards trading money for comfort. Heck, $1k/month doesn't cover my landside fixed expenses even though I live full time on a sailboat. As we age mortality sneaks up on us and we are not longer immortal as the younger folk think of themselves. All the various insurances and taxes, fees, and licenses (excluding anything to do with living on the boat) come in at more than $1K per month. That is why the "middle" cost segment with its bulk of older couples living full time on vessels is double or more from the "economy/young cruiser" group. We are not all the much more comfortable than the "economy group" it is that our fixed expenses have increased dramatically.

[Vic de Beer]

When, 20 years ago, I was asked by a couple doing a survey for theYachting Monthly, how much money I need to go cruising, I told them $400.00/ month.
I'm not sure whether the guy spat in the water (or whether he was crying) as they jumped in their new hard bottom inflatable and quickly zoomed off to their Mason (about 43ft)
My boat was very distinctive..... solar panel, wind generator.... rusty bicycle....fishing poles like a porqupine ..... and scruffy baggy wrinkles
So yes, I can see that it is all relative......

[S&S]

IMO it all boils down to the amount of amenities you think you need-both for comfort and peace of mind. When I was in my late teens/early 20's, my (then) 60 year old 23 foot sloop with a cranky outboard was plenty- Look Ma! It Has Bunks! The "dingy" was one of those pool inflatables etc..

Now that I'm (a lot) older, trips are more expensive as I want more amenities/comfort/safety/etc/etc. then I thought worthwhile then.

My guess is that it still can be done "on the cheap" if you're willing to pretty radically simplify your lifestyle.

[anotherT34C]

There is truth to the notion that as the world increasingly modernizes, foreign ports become more expensive.

And lets not forget for all the romantic notions of wooden ships, iron men, and rusty sextants, a miserable death at sea was far more commonplace, and an "old salt" was a dude in his late 40's.

[barnakiel]

I think USD 1000 is the floor ONLY IF you are sailing an average (today 40'+ seems to be the average) and spend time in the marinas.

But do NOT forget about those who live in the basement, nor those in the penthouse.

My average over 4 years of circumnavigating (2003-2007) was half of the 'floor @ 1000' and I met people doing very well with much less.

I also met people whose monthly was well in excess of 10.000.

So the world can be had for less, but it is true that to very many cruisers the 1000 may be the bare minimum they can do with.

b.

[jm21]

I think some of the price differences aren't as much about comfort. It's interesting to watch my parents, aunts, and uncles retire. All of them have some pretty big excesses. My parents just sold their old house and bought a new house for retirement (they wanted a water view and to move up to WA). But they bought a 2,000 sqft house with 3bd/2.5ba....for two people...is that really about comfort? One set of aunts/uncles bought a nordic tug which is a ridiculously expensive little boat imho, and now have worries about being able to afford health insurance. Another set of aunt/uncles built their dream beach cabin (on top of their normal house) and will now probably have to work for another 10 years to pay it off pushing their retirement well past 70. Why not just sell the old house to pay off the beach house and retire? I don't really see how any of these choices involve comfort.

It seems like I see these big boats with this old retired couple that really doesn't need that big of a boat and definitely can't handle it...with the electric windlass and winches, bow and stern thrusters, and all sorts of equipment to help them handle the boat that drives the cost up even more...when a smaller boat could have basically all the features they needed, would be less expensive, wouldn't require special equipment to operate, and would probably be safer (easier to handle, less equipment to malfunction) and still provide plenty of room for a whopping two people.

[dana-tenacity]

Early 80's two adults on a 32 ft boat $500/month was easy, early 2000's two adults, two kids 45 ft boat $2,000/month was a struggle.

Just waiting for it to become two adults again, then see how small a boat I can convince her is acceptable.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Vic de Beer

When I did this, some 20 years ago, it was about $400.00/m. .

20 years ago I can't work out the value of money compared to now, but it appears it was about half then:

How Much things cost in 1989
Yearly Inflation Rate U.S.A. 4.83%
Year End Close Dow Jones Industrial Average 2753
Interest Rates Year End Federal Reserve 10.50%
Average Cost of new house $120,000.00
Average Income per year $27,450.00
Average Monthly Rent $420.00
Average Price for new car $15,3500.00
1 gallon of gas 97 cents


How Much things cost today ( Updated August 2009 )
Average Cost of new house ( 2008 ) $238,880
Average Cost for house rent( 2008 ) $800.00 per month
Average wages per year ( 2008 ) $40,523
Cost of a gallon of Gas ( August 2009 ) $2.51

So $400 20 years ago is about $1,000 now - give or take an oil change!

Originally Posted by steelfan

53 foot steel

Originally Posted by steelfan

Turkey, Greece and Italy/Spain, we are about to exit via Gib
. The boat has averaged 9500 UK pounds and us, 8000 UK pounds; both per year. We do not fish, we have a cheapish meal out about once a week, and a medium priced one on birthdays etc.

17,500 pounds is aprox USD$2,330 per month. And they are not living high on the hog!
Europe is more expensive that most areas, but the reality is world cruising has cheap and expensive areas and they suggest the took into account their time in cheaper Asia

As osirissail says its "amazing how the little "nickel, dime" items start adding up to serious dollars over time, like a year." So the difference between doing it on $1,000 per month and $2,000 is not much! Just a cheap meal per week for a couple in an expensive area; a few extra things for the boat, say a couple of $30 LED lights to save power; a trip to the museum of the historic place we're visiting; a $10 3 minute phone call home..... thats not asking too much.

I think its fine for single people in their 20's and 30's to head out in a 25 footer and live off a huge box of instant noodles (Malaysia is instant noodle heaven!) we all have done it sometime at university, college or in our first rental apartment when we left home.

However the majority of cruisers doing the full world extensive trip (or half world, you know what I mean) have worked 30 or 40 years so they don't have to eat exclusively white rice. Also we are travelling in interesting and exciting places that we have seen in the news, read in novels, studied the history from school right through our lives. If we did it on $1000 per month that would mean we have no money to pay for the trip to the Colosseum, visit the Pyramids, take a day on the Nile. climb the Statue of Liberty, climb the Sydney Harbour Bridge, visit Angkor Wat, walk the Royal Mile in Edinburgh; drink beer in Munich, or pay for a Samba School so we can dance in Rio's Mardis Gras.

Cruising is a lot more than survival. Crusing is about experiencing the world that we have see form afar for our whole lives. Now we want to feel it, touch it, and be involved. That costs money.


Mark

[Therapy]

Well put Mark.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

20 years ago I can't work out the value of money compared to now, but it appears it was about half then:

So $400 20 years ago is about $1,000 now - give or take an oil change!

Just to add, that when going "foreign" you not only need to factor in currency movements over time but also that the cost of living does also increase abroad - not only for the same reasons as in this part of the world, but also as countries "develop".

Strangely enuf it is not the case that the "major" currencies always stay strong against the funny sounding ones you would expect to always be losing value due to poor govt / no resources / widespread poverty etc etc - but apart from "our" currencies depreciating globallly for whatever reasons, the funny sounding currencies are from countries starting from a lower base so any improvements are more easily made and impact on their currencies.

[jm21]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

So $400 20 years ago is about $1,000 now - give or take an oil change!

"What cost $400 in 1989 would cost $686.06 in 2008. Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2008 and 1989,
they would cost you $400 and $230.99 respectively."

The Inflation Calculator

CPI Inflation Calculator

If the prices I saw in China in July are any guide there are plenty of places where $1,000 USD can go quite a ways.

Cruising is a lot more than survival. Crusing is about experiencing the world that we have see form afar for our whole lives. Now we want to feel it, touch it, and be involved. That costs money.

Does cruising necessarily involve seeing all the important sites everywhere in the world?

With China as an example again, just because it's the only foreign country I've visited recently....

If you stayed in western hotels, went to all the sites, and ate at western restaurants, you could spend more than you would in the US on a similar vacation. On the other hand, you could 'live like a local', lease an apartment, go on a few day trips, hang out with the locals, and eat at inexpensive local restaurants and you'd pay a fraction of the cost of what a similar vacation in the US costs. Which is "better" and which gives you more insight into the culture is more a matter of opinion than anything else.

I fail to believe an intelligent person with even meager culinary and budgeting skills is going to be forced to subsist on ramen with $1,000/month. We live in an age of dirt cheap food. If you cook for yourself you can go a long way on practically nothing.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by jm21

"
. If you cook for yourself you can go a long way on practically nothing.

I think most of the costs discussed were for "other" things, like wire, oil filters, cloth and don't forget---------------BEER!

Wait---------beer is food.

Never mind.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by jm21

I fail to believe an intelligent person with even meager culinary and budgeting skills is going to be forced to subsist on ramen with $1,000/month. We live in an age of dirt cheap food. If you cook for yourself you can go a long way on practically nothing.

Thanks for the inflation / cpi calculators

Of course you are right. People can live for $500 per month on a boat. Less has been done too, far less.


Mark