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Old 16-10-2009, 03:10   #136
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You should probably be aware that I don't consider I'm making many sacrifices in lifestyle. One of the reasons I own two boats (the currently on the hard, partly dissembled steel cutter, and a 33 foot cruiser-racer) is because I don't own a car, deliberately bought a house a ten-minute bike ride from my YC, and am willing to have in-house tenants.

Hell, I don't even have cable TV!

So having a materially simple life (save for my pretty expensive book-buying habit) both enables the ability to sail away in mid-life for a few years, and doesn't represent a radical depletion of toys...because I don't have 'em in the first place, except for exotic boat gear and weird tools. I got excited a couple of weeks ago buying a five-ton puller...good grief, it's sad, really.

Yes, there is the cost of the boat, and then 50% of the cost of the boat again over four or five years fitting her out, but the actual voyaging will be about 50% cheaper than it costs me to live in the middle of a large city, i.e. "my normal life". Tenants will probably cover a big chunk of the yearly expenses, but we won't actually need them to.

If you look at it that way, it's hard to spend on water what you spend on land, unless you do something stupid like tie up for a summer at a full-service marina dock. The absence of places to spend money at sea is an unexpected benefit to one's cruising kitty.
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Old 16-10-2009, 03:59   #137
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You should probably be aware that I don't consider I'm making many sacrifices in lifestyle.
Nether do I... but I assume only "about one "night out" ashore per month, and maybe three marina visits per year", while not a large sacrifice, is enough of one to almost offset the added costs of the extra people. Your estimate of $20,000-25,000KCan per year works out to about $1614-2013US/month, which is close to my estimate, though a slight bit higher (caused by having 2 additional people, slightly offset by avoiding shore a little more often then some).

I'd be very much interested in examining other budgets to see if they fit into my estimate.
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Old 16-10-2009, 11:13   #138
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It's important to lay aside a fairly substantial "contingency" fund for things like a shredded main, a pooched autopilot, and so on. Even leaving with everything new or nearly new is no guarantee of avoiding misfortune...some people sail ten years with the same anchor, and others can lose two in the same week.

We are planning a summer "shakedown" cruise in our Atlantic waters (Toronto to Halifax) in "Year Zero" before we actually leave. This will give us chilly, wet, foggy and stormy conditions, but in our own currency, charts and language(s)...a perfect opportunity to discover what will break, and what will perform properly, and which techniques work and which don't. We would either overwinter in Halifax prior to heading south, or overwinter back in Toronto to see what is truly necessary on the boat, to get our kid a last burst of school ashore, and to make sure we've got the right tenants and that the money flow vs. maintenance outlay is working properly.

So any budget is by its very nature speculative and conditional. You could stock up with a year's supplies in some discount warehouse in Florida and end up in some Polynesian lagoon where there is very little to buy (until the ship comes) and literally go weeks without spending a penny...particularly if you like and can acquire seafood or if you trade/barter services for local delicacies.

Then you could go to a New Zealand marina with an expanded per diem and still stay on budget.

So there's a limit to how controlled this exercise can be. The budget tends to reveal itself in retrospect, so you learn the size of various pie slices (fuel, food, spares, etc.) at the end of Year One.
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Old 16-10-2009, 12:07   #139
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Yes, there is a limit to how controlled this exercise can be, but I'm not suggesting this is some catch all budget anyone can use to plan to the penny, it is simply a generalized starting point that someone who has no idea what a budget might look like can use to put a context to all the variables people have been mentioning. Again, knowing that a larger boat will cost "more" means nothing if you have no context upon which you can apply that "more" variable to. I'm really not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp?
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Old 16-10-2009, 12:14   #140
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Kratch,
That was exacly my point right from the onset, I cannot understand why it can be so hard to impart that information. I must say that you have been more persistent and have actually come up with some answers.
My view was more cynical as you may get from my very first posting (See post # 1).
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Old 16-10-2009, 17:35   #141
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, it is simply a generalized starting point that someone who has no idea what a budget might look like can use
Yes, but it appears you won't get it here because the insults fly too think and fast.

This forum is slipping into the gratuitous insults of other lesser forums and I have emailed the Mods on a few occasions.

Fool insults but others mean that people like you don't get the help you want.

There are actually other relevant threads on here, including a poll where people put their anual budgets down for others to see.
Try hunting around for that, and others


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Old 16-10-2009, 18:28   #142
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Well I've set aside $30 for cruising this year because I found a deal on a couple of magazine subscriptions. Now I can read about it and dream myself to Fab places. The remainder of my money is going to have to go to my boat!

Lighten up people! I do have to say that this topic always manages to fill up lots of pages.
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Old 16-10-2009, 22:02   #143
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Strange when the OP asks for an opinion and is answered by many opinions. Then others take issue of some of the opinions to launch their own agendas. Then they recoil in rightous inignation when someone disagrees with them.
I sometimes think they troll for controversy.
So goes the forum.
Pogo said it best in his comic strip of the late sixties and seventies, "We have met the enemy and it is us".
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Old 16-10-2009, 22:14   #144
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Then they recoil in rightous inignation when someone disagrees with them.
Its the way it is said, John.

If we speak to each other the way we speak to a friend at the marina bar that would suffice.
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Old 16-10-2009, 23:28   #145
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MarkJ, Thank you for the lead on that budget poll. That thread appears to understand the question better and provides similar, but more friendly and useful answers. It appears that I came to about the same conclusion as Muskoka, though in slightly different ways, and helps me feel more confident in my conclusion of a base $1500-2k/month median (before atypical personal modifiers and excessive creature comforts).
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Old 17-10-2009, 07:47   #146
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Kratch, it seems you have volunteered to be the "bush" around which everybody is "beating" trying to get to the center of the issue at hand. Better you than me . . . So thank you for enduring.
- - Your ideas of $1500-2000 +/- per month as a single hander on a below 40-footer would put you in the "comfortable" to "quite comfortable" bracket as a full time cruiser. Now this is based on removing all boat purchase costs and a very well done re-fit before setting out. The re-fit if done right can remove the probability of significant boat costs (other than bottom jobs and accidental damage) for about 5 years. Quality re-fits usually last 10 years and then the wear and tear from sun, sea, and underwater obstacles start to add up and it is time for another re-fit. Average recommended age for standing rigging is 10 years.
- - Having been out (off land) in the Caribbean for 8 years I have observed (prior to the Catamaran invasion) that the cruising couple in the comfortable bracket live on a 40-45 footer and budget $25K per year (again removing significant problems like hurricane damage/destruction and blown engines or sails/rigging or medical bills for accidental or age related injuries). That is where S/V Alchemy's "contingency funds comes into play. I refer to it as having "financial depth" behind you. So your estimates are well within the normal reality currently experienced by full time monohull cruising people.
- - What drives the budget crazy is "financial self-discipline." The "nickel-dime" items quickly add up due to lack of discipline. The nature of the cruising lifestyle is so good that discipline becomes that "Catholic Nun with the ruler in her hand smacking your knuckles." We all leave with the best intentions and firm resolve to stay within budget. But somewhere along the way and a few bottles of rum, Presidente, or Carib later, who cares about budget. It is very lucky that most of the islands are sort of "poor islands" with limited supplies and opportunities to spend and our boats are too small and packed with spare parts and basic provisions to allow any extra stuff to be brought on board. I would definitely suggest to NOT allow funds in the budget for too many "extras" - simply as an aid to force discipline on yourself to not get out of hand.
- - Many months you will spend nothing beyond diesel, food (rum and beer are basic foods), and entry/exit/harbor fees (anchoring is not free everywhere). Those months are a joy and are not uncommon. However, some other months will be very expensive as wear, tear, and accumulated "to do lists" have to be addressed. A shreaded sail, lost anchor, dead batteries, and a hundred of other problems caused by simple usage of the boat in this sometimes hostile environment will easily suck up those dollars saved in the good months.
- - But on average your base amounts are reasonable and square with what is happening out here. Add another person and it bumps up "a little", not a lot. Add more people or a larger boat and you will jump to the next bracket of $2K-3K or more.
- - I would suggest that money spent "up-front" will significantly decrease money that has to be spent down-island. Basically replacement parts and non-local foods are double to triple typical North American costs. Depending upon how "mainstream" your boat is, will determine whether you have to have parts "imported" via FedEx/DHL or whatever, versus getting them locally at full retail prices or more. Replacing a battery varies down here from $400 for lead acid to $1K for big AGM's - per battery! So the initial outfitting with Trojan T-105's versus exotic batteries can make a 1000% difference in costs afterwards. (T-105's are US$100 in the D.R., double or triple that down island). I hope that helps . . .
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Old 17-10-2009, 08:34   #147
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"rum and beer are basic foods" - best quote of whole thread! People talk about these as budget busters, but one has to eat!
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Old 18-10-2009, 17:56   #148
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"rum and beer are basic foods" - best quote of whole thread! People talk about these as budget busters, but one has to eat!
A litre of almost the best rum I have ever had costs about $4-00
fermentation new zealand spirits nz home brew - Still Spirits

I'ts the mixers that keep me poor

There is a special place on board the boat for one of these universal "Water Purifiers"
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Old 18-10-2009, 20:10   #149
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this seems disingenuous

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I am actually sorry that I started this thread.... I, never in a million years, thought that would stir up the animosity it did.
Vic began this thread by stating, in his first sentence, "From reading the threads on this forum, I get a general, kinda felling that: most people that are on this forum must be independently wealth, or have some income other than working for it."

In other words, the insinuation was made that those of us who can afford to cruise on an ample budget "have some income other than working for it."

Hey, Vic, I can afford to cruise on far more than $1,000 per month. This isn't because I inherited money; I did not. Rather, it's because I got a good education, thanks to scholarships I earned by getting good grades, and then I worked my tail off for 35 years as a teacher to put the cruising kitty together. When I'd come home from work after a long day, instead of turning on the TV I'd spend hours at the typewriter composing articles and, ultimately, books. One of those books hit it big enough to purchase a brand-new sailboat that weighs 15 tons and is absolutely gorgeous. It's one of those boats that some "yachties" call "docominiums," but it's huge and fast and comfy and gorgeous, and stock full of all the modern navigational aids that make it possible for people like me to cross oceans.

I resent the implication that those of us who don't have to restrict our cruising budgets have income that we haven't worked for. I, too, regret that you started this thread. I've never posted an opinion on this or any other forum that suggests that people less affluent than myself ought not to be cruising. You, on the other hand, have managed to insinuate that those more affluent than yourself are not worthy of the cruising lifestyle because we must have income that we have not worked for.

Think about this before you start another thread on this forum.
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Old 18-10-2009, 21:49   #150
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I don't see why this Kratch dude can't seem to grasp this.

I've known people who lived on $200 per month for 8 months and then suddenly spend $2000 per month for 8 months on the same boat, with the same habits.

The change was dictated by weather and seasons, where they were forced to shelter out some major storms in expensive ports and repair extensive damage caused by constant bashing of waves.

Every boat (and I mean each, individual boat, not each year, or each model, or each length) will have different costs. For example, one man on a 1995 Hunter 34 will have to spend $20,000 this year on repairs cruising exactly the same grounds that another man on an identical boat will spend $500 on maintinance.

One man will catch a huge tuna and eat for free for a week, where the other will have his rod break and have to both buy food and spend money for a new rod.

Ultimately, you take the amount you spend on food and insurance in a month, add the cost of other consumables (water, propane, etc). Toss in an unknown value for ship maintinance which will vary from $0 to the full replacement value of your boat, depending on how lucky you are, how cautious you are, how the weather treats you and let me repeat how lucky you are. Then you add on the cost of cruising permits, mooring fees, etc, which varies from exactly $0 to $ZOMG dollars, depending on which country you are in.

Then add the cost of your own personal items. I don't have hair, so I don't buy shampoo. You may. I have a friend who spends $300/mo on vitamins. Says he can't live without them. Obviously, he would have to factor that in. mmm

Then there's recreation, entertainment, etc. A cell phone? A sat phone? EPIRB? Add up those costs.


What I'm getting at is... you can cruise anywhere from...

$food+$bare_maintinance

to...

$ZOMGWTF


And EVERYWHERE in between.
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