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Old 11-05-2012, 08:58   #31
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

Many boats are contracted without the buyer first visiting the boat. The contract will have a stipulation subject to buyers approval. This is done when the boat is not nearby of course. A good broker can give good advice on this. There was a recent thread about a member losing out on a good boat because he wanted to inspect it first. Somebody else jumped on it.
If buying direct in a private transaction then there are boat escrow and closing companies that handle the paperwork and put your deposit in an escrow account just like real estate.
If the boat is relatively low cost like a car then you might just want to wing it yourself.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:36   #32
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgasmd View Post
Very good and well detailed answer. Now, what entity in particular is the boat registered with? What does the Coast Guard Documentation actually do? What is involved with it and why is it good?

Again, thanks for the suggestions of other forums and such. Never thought of this and will actually do so.

Thanks again
If you will be just be doing coastal cruising within your state.
Then just register the boat with your states department of motor vehicles (DMV).

If you plan on cruising out of state or farther than you will want US Coast Guard Documentation.
Only used on boats 35 feet or longer.

Reasons for US Coast Guard Documentation:
1) Your bank may require it as title of which they will hold, just as with a car title.

2) Makes boat easyer to sell and verify true ownership.

3) Boats get stolen from time to time and US Coast Guard Documentation requires that you to mark the boat in a few places that cannot be easily removed or will leave evidence of removal.

4) It allows for ownership by one or more individuals

5) It allows for Joint Tenants with Right of Survivorship – JTWROS

You can download the form CG-1258 online and fill it in yourself and submit with payment. Takes about a month to get it approved and returned. Cost under $100 and is a onetime fee.

Your Broker can and will do this for you for around $500. It’s such and easy process to do it yourself. I have never understood why buyers have their broker do this for them.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:49   #33
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by Astral Blue View Post
..........
For what its worth, the tire kicker experience has taught me a lot about selling boats. This is a principle I will consider if selling a boat in the future: Since I need to drive out to the marina and spend time showing a boat, I will be charging $50 to show the boat. If they agree to purchase the boat, I'll knock $100 off the price. If you see this, don't take offense; just know you are dealing with someone who has been around the block.

Best of luck to you.
With all due respect, the problem is not the tire-kickers, but your lack of ability to properly qualify the prospects.

Especially in the current market, what do you think the likelyhood of a prospect going to see your boat versus the multitude of others if you want $50 upfront? Somewhere between zero, nothing and nada.

Learn to qualify, and you will eliminate many tire-kickers. If they don't buy, then you have not asked the right questions, or they are still shopping, or something about your boat turned them off.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:51   #34
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by dgasmd View Post
Before I get flamed for the nature of the post, let me tell you I know nearly nothing as a starting point. Hence me asking about it.

I am looking at purchasing my first boat over the next 6 months or so. I have been looking in yacht world and other places for a while getting some ideas and comparing. I would appreciate it if someone could give me some ideas as to the timeline or process of going about it from looking at the boat in an add to sailing away in it? I mean the step by step process. I have bought houses and cars before, but none of those involved a sea trial

So, do I go check out the boat personally, and assuming I like it and want to make an offer, then what (assume it is accepted for the sake of simplicity)? What role does the broker have other than doing advertising for the seller and mediating the price negotiation? Do I need to get a broker myself sort of like a realtor? Who pays the broker/s?

Let me give you an example of what I am talking about in case it is not clear. Let's use the buying a car example.

1. Find model of car I like
2. Secure financing through bank/lenders with letter of approval and get insurance queotes.
3. Go see/inspect the car
4. Test drive it
5. make an offer to dealer
6. offer accepted
7. contact lender to forward check and write check for downpayment (or similar)
8. dealer does title and registration documents and submits them in my behave
9. drive car home
10. call insurance in AM to add vehicle
11. enjoy car driving around


If this is a boat of any value at all, get both a marine survey and an engine survey.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:09   #35
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

You can think of Coast Guard documentation sort of like federal registration. The boat has to meet certain requirements, but then the Coast Guard basically keeps track of who owns it and what liens might be placed against it. You are not required to document the boat, but it can make checking into some countries easier, if you are going to do a lot of international traveling.

Link here for everything you need to know about documentation: USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, Home Page

Beyond that, most states will require you pay some taxes and/or get the boat registered. For example, Florida requires any boat that is in the state for more than 90 days to be registered (typical cost, less than $200 per year). In addition, when you buy the boat you will probably have to pay sales taxes--that depends on where you buy it and where you move it to. All these things are very state-specific, so you need to figure all this out once you know where you are buying the boat and where you will be keeping it. (Or you can try to figure it all out ahead of time, in order to minimize your taxes.)
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:13   #36
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Especially in the current market, what do you think the likelyhood of a prospect going to see your boat versus the multitude of others if you want $50 upfront? Somewhere between zero, nothing and nada.
Yep. WAAAAAY too many available boats out there, with anxious sellers, for me to waste my time and money on someone who is so out of touch with the market that they think they can charge me just to look at their boat.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:18   #37
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3
Especially in the current market, what do you think the likelyhood of a prospect going to see your boat versus the multitude of others if you want $50 upfront? Somewhere between zero, nothing and nada.

Yep. WAAAAAY too many available boats out there, with anxious sellers, for me to waste my time and money on someone who is so out of touch with the market that they think they can charge me just to look at their boat. "

PAY to look at someone's boat? That may be the craziest thing I've heard in some time!
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Old 11-05-2012, 13:07   #38
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Boat Buying Process.

SNIP

16) Get it registered, pay any state tax, if it is over 35 feet and you will travel far with it you will want to get it US Coast Guard Documented (can do yourself for under $100)

SNIP
Documentation is inexpensive enough that it is probably a good idea. The 35 feet thing is a good rule of thumb but if you check the USCG site you will find it is only a rule of thumb. There are a couple of forms you can fill out to determine if a particular boat qualifies for documentation, and they are really more based on displacement than LOA (which is boat speak for Length OverAll, gotta learn the lingo).

Another hint I would offer is to make some very specific posts about the exact boat you want in multiple internet forums. As an example I am in the market for an F31R, which is a 31 foot trimaran designed by Ian Farrier. You will not only get opinions about the boat but probably be contacted by what I call motivated sellers.

Also go to the NADA web site and see if the boat you want is listed there. You can fill out a form online (with stuff like the year, style, and additional stuff the boat has) and get a rough idea of how big a loan you can get on the boat. While there are lots of folks who bash NADA the bottom line is banks do pay attention to it and if you are going to get a loan it will probably be from a bank.

Just as with cars there does seem to a better and worse time of year to buy a boat, and May is sometimes said to be the month with the lowest prices. Of course this is not a hard and fast rule, just another bit of boat lore.

For a lot of reasons coming up with a time line is a tall order. Buying a boat close to where you live decrease time needed. Personal obligations may help or hurt (I am going to Utah on 20 May, 2012 to observe the solar eclipse which will slow down my search in Florida but allow a side trip to California to see a boat there). Anyone who has secured a loan from a bank knows they work at their own speed. Weather is also a factor, no one wants sea trials for a sail boat if there is no wind. Conventional advice is to take your time. For every time some one lost a boat by acting too slowly there are a whole lot more folks who advise there will always be more boats for sale.

Just remember the reason you are doing this is so you can have fun, when it stops being fun take a break for a while.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:44   #39
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

Get a broker. I am in the final stage of negotiating a boat and I have not even been on board. I work in a very remote country so took the advantage of a good broker - he found what I was looking for (actually better than I even knew), has organised the surveys, even flew down to do the sea trials and survey, tooks videos and photos (I wanted the warts and all photos - don't bore me with the obvious) and based on the engine survey tomorrow, I may have my boat. I am an experienced sailor, this will be my 3rd boat (built my first) so am not against using a broker. Just ensure you understand the survey, negotiate accordingly, and remember if you have a good broker, he is ther to FIND you a boat, not just sell you something - a bad reputation is a hard thing to recover from, so trust them to do the right thing.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:22   #40
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

One more thing.
Your big boat doesn't have to have the states registration number on it but your dinghy does. The little boat also has to have the proper running lights also.
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Old 11-05-2012, 17:15   #41
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by dgasmd View Post
Fantastic!!! It only took 24 posts for someone to actually read the question and answer it Just what I was looking for
Damn. I feel your pain there, dgasmd. All these people trying so hard to answer your questions and so few coming up to snuff. I say fire them all, and don't say thank you! Hard to find good help these days, ain't it? Best a luck to you, pal. I can see you have wonderful people skills, you should be fine. :whist ling:
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Old 11-05-2012, 18:12   #42
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgasmd View Post
Let me give you an example of what I am talking about in case it is not clear. Let's use the buying a car example.

1. Find model of car Boat I like
2. Secure financing through bank/lenders with letter of approval and get insurance queotes. (could well be restrictions on boat age, and not just on boat value - make sure the credit is available for any boat you make an offer on!).
3. Go see/inspect the car Boat (could do this more than once)
4. Test drive Sail it her (some Vendors don't allow at this stage )
4a consider what the boat is worth to you (and price up any work / upgrades you will need or simply will want - there is always "stuff")
5. make an offer to dealer Broker
6. offer accepted
6a Contract signed (includes a timescale for completion and terms to reject the boat (after Survey) and penalty for your failure to complete)
6b deposit paid (could be 10%, could be 5% or could be a nominal amout - would be with me)
6c Sea Trial (to ensure everything works as claimed / expected, not to see if you like her)
6d Haul out (at your expense) for a Survey (at your expense) and then re-launch (at your expense)
6e Surveyor inspects boat and writes Survey Report
6f You get to work out what the Survey Report means / what the cost implications are / whether you still want the boat / want to re-negotiate the price

(and if you don't want the boat or Vendor not willing to drop the price ascertain whether you can reject the boat under the contract terms - anything major will allow a rejection, minor things can be arguable - in practice likely that deposit will simply be refunded if a new deal / price cannot be struck. Note that even if the Survey reveals that the keel has fallen off! that the Vendor does not have to drop the price, but you could (easily) back out of the deal).

7. contact lender to forward check for balance to the Broker and write check for downpayment (or similar)
8. dealer Broker does title and registration documents and submits them in on my behave behalf
9. call insurance in AM to add vehicle Boat
10. drive Sail car Boat home
11. enjoy car Boat driving sailing around

If using a Broker, simply talk to him and ask what his usual procedure is (some folks - Broker or Vendors have own ideas, but the basics will be as above). Should easily be done within a month, could be done inside a week (if everyone organised and motivated).

Fundamentaly no different from buying a car (or anything else), find what you want, get happy with the price, make sure it is what you think it is (what the Vendor is claiming!) and then hand over the cash in exchange for title.
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Old 11-05-2012, 19:16   #43
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Re: The buying process. Talk me through it.

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
-


I personally would not use a buyers broker unless a really high end boat and I worked a fixed price that I paid him plus a percentage of every dollar below asking price minus repairs. For example a 250k boat. $2500 + 5%. If I got the boat for $200 and the estimate for repairs from survey was $20k he'd get $2500 + $1,500. For this I would expect him to be very active in the deal from finding surveyor, arranging haulout, veerifying contracts, reregistering the boat, helping price and find insurance and negotiating the price.
Never ever, never ask a broker to find you a surveyor unless the broker is your very close brother.
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