Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-07-2011, 10:45   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: greater Toronto area
Posts: 83
Sucker's Market

I've been told repeatedly that it's a buyer's market. Somehow, the sellers in my area have not gotten the message. It seems everywhere I look, somebody is trying to 'load me into the boat'. I've been looking at boats, some of which have 25 year-old sails, which I believe are end of life, and yet the prices are still high.

I was recently questioned on this forum for even considering a 1988 Catalina 30 which was asking $32,000 Canadian. Some of the other 30s (similar production boats) of the same era that I have looked at have had asking prices in the low to mid forties. Looking at newer boats, say 2005 or 2006, the asking price is as high as a new boat.

If I were ten years younger, I would skip the used boat market altogether. I don't want to buy someone's worn out and used up boat at a high price, or pay an even more outrageous price for something newer. I've heard that with production boats, used but late model is the way to go, but not if I have to pay the price of a new boat.

I'm starting to get fed up with the whole used boat market in my area. I may have to shop elsewhere, or give up the idea of 'the cruising life' altogether.

There's always the Dominican Republic.

Nomad
__________________

__________________
Nomad57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:53   #2
Registered User
 
webejammin's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pacific NW, sailing the Columbia River, USA
Boat: Gemini 105MC 34 ft hull#753
Posts: 951
Images: 3
Re: Sucker's Market

The problem with looking for boats in northern lattitudes is they add the transport cost which can be lots. We bought last fall in San Diego and the transport cost, setup cost, plus local taxes and fees was about the difference in savings from buying in the pacific north west but we got to chose from several like boats to get the one that looked the best.
__________________

__________________
Wind in my hair and a nice catamaran
Phil & Elaine
webejammin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:57   #3
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Sucker's Market

there is a perfectly goood solid full keel cal 30--- 1968 or 1969 in the water in san diego---- for dirt cheeeeep---- is a better boat than any catalina i have seen perform, and can go many places safely i would not dream of taking a catalina. let me know if 6000 dollars is too much to spend on a boat already in water with decent paint and good thru hulls and dodger and weather cloths in decent shape.....and a running inboard.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:22   #4
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,033
Re: Sucker's Market

Nomad-
They've gotten the message. But the used boat market has always been, and probably will always be, like the used car market.
They're all cherries that have only been used once a week by a little old lady who went to church.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:26   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Re: Sucker's Market

It seems to me buying a boat is a complicated thing and prices often reflect that. The area a boat is being sold is a hugh factor because there are costs and difficulties associated with buying from some where distant and then bringing it home so while the internet makes it easy to look at boats in far away places, flying there to see what is actually being sold, legal costs and shipping costs if you aren't prepared to use the boat where it is can negate any cost advantage. That's why prices aren't flat around the world. Canada's economy has stayed healthy so prices reflect that. Even though the US is close by the difficulty associated with buying a boat and bringing it home keeps the prices from being drastically reduced up here.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:27   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: greater Toronto area
Posts: 83
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
there is a perfectly goood solid full keel cal 30--- 1968 or 1969 in the water in san diego---- for dirt cheeeeep---- is a better boat than any catalina i have seen perform, and can go many places safely i would not dream of taking a catalina. let me know if 6000 dollars is too much to spend on a boat already in water with decent paint and good thru hulls and dodger and weather cloths in decent shape.....and a running inboard.
Certainly not, Zee, although SD is a bit of a trek from here. Would prefer on the east coast.

Right now, we're sailing/racing with some folks we know, to see how we're going to be able to handle it, so our shopping is not of the 'urgent' variety. I was basically trying to get an overview of the market in our area, and that view hasn't been good.

I don't believe we will buy before the fall. Prices will probably be softer, and I won't have to pay for haul-out for inspection/survey.

Nomad
__________________
Nomad57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:30   #7
Registered User
 
Lowcountry's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Charleston SC
Boat: 1988 Mason 44
Posts: 371
Re: Sucker's Market

Ever think that maybe those skippers didn't really want to sell their boats? "Yes, honey, here's the classified ad right here... I am trying my best to sell it, baby, but nobody is making offers..."
__________________
Lowcountry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:34   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Boat: Cape Dory
Posts: 439
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post

I don't believe we will buy before the fall. Prices will probably be softer, and I won't have to pay for haul-out for inspection/survey.

Nomad
Huh? You'll skip them? Or, are you suggesting the market will result in the seller paying for them? Always interesting to see how people view the boat "market". An oximoron if there ever was one . . ..
__________________
Mambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:34   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: greater Toronto area
Posts: 83
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway View Post
It seems to me buying a boat is a complicated thing and prices often reflect that. The area a boat is being sold is a hugh factor because there are costs and difficulties associated with buying from some where distant and then bringing it home so while the internet makes it easy to look at boats in far away places, flying there to see what is actually being sold, legal costs and shipping costs if you aren't prepared to use the boat where it is can negate any cost advantage. That's why prices aren't flat around the world. Canada's economy has stayed healthy so prices reflect that. Even though the US is close by the difficulty associated with buying a boat and bringing it home keeps the prices from being drastically reduced up here.
Quite so, Hummingway. That's pretty-much as I understood it. Although, I am not expecting the 'drastically reduced prices' that are available in the U.S. Neither am I expecting to pay through the nose for a twenty-five year-old boat with twenty-five year-old worn out sails.

Nor am I expecting to pay the price of a new boat for a used one, just because the owner bought when our dollar was down. His mistake, not mine. I specifically avoided a new boat purchase back then for that reason. I won't pay for someone else' mistake.

Nomad
__________________
Nomad57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:36   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Boat: Cape Dory
Posts: 439
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I was recently questioned on this forum for even considering a 1988 Catalina 30 which was asking $32,000 Canadian. Some of the other 30s (similar production boats) of the same era that I have looked at have had asking prices in the low to mid forties. Looking at newer boats, say 2005 or 2006, the asking price is as high as a new boat.


Nomad
For thos of us not in the buy / sell market at the moment what *is* FMV on these boats right now?
__________________
Mambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:37   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: greater Toronto area
Posts: 83
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
Huh? You'll skip them? Or, are you suggesting the market will result in the seller paying for them? Always interesting to see how people view the boat "market". An oximoron if there ever was one . . ..
You misunderstood. What I meant was, any boat I look at in the fall will already be hauled out, and I may inspect the boat, including the hull, and THEN call in the surveyor.

Nomad
__________________
Nomad57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:40   #12
Registered User
 
bangkaboat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sihanoukville, Cambodia
Boat: looking
Posts: 593
Images: 3
Re: Sucker's Market

Gee, K, I hope it isn't the one that was in La Paz.

Nomad, I was experiencing the same thing in B.C. and broadened my horizons to include the west coast, from Alaska to Mexico. Even the boat I eventually bought was listed at twice as much as I paid for her. I'd suggest looking in the areas on the east coast of the U.S. that are hurting from the economic downturn, finding the best few examples you can there, then contacting the broker & asking him/her to send you a purchase agreement for that boat. If the selling price is written in(usually), pull the document into "paint" & remove the price, write in your preferred price & fax it back, along with the deposit, if requested(usually). Make sure it's "subject to", then await a response. If the seller won't play, the broker may be able to track you down another one. I've seen several boats in B.C. taking up a couple of years worth of moorage, because the seller turned down earlier offers. In fact, I'm pretty sure that at least 5 sellers of boats I made offers on are wishing they'd given more thought to what was on the table. My "after survey" offer - and purchase - was less than 50% of the asking price. My original offer was less than 70%.
__________________
bangkaboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:44   #13
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I was recently questioned on this forum for even considering a 1988 Catalina 30 which was asking $32,000 Canadian. Some of the other 30s (similar production boats) of the same era that I have looked at have had asking prices in the low to mid forties. Looking at newer boats, say 2005 or 2006, the asking price is as high as a new boat.


Nomad

Heck I just looked on Yatchworld and there's lots Catalina 30s in the Northeast for less than $30k and bunch of 36s under $40k. And those are just the listing prices. I don't think you are looking hard enough. Pick a broker in the area and get him/her to help you!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:48   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Boat: Cape Dory
Posts: 439
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
You misunderstood. What I meant was, any boat I look at in the fall will already be hauled out, and I may inspect the boat, including the hull, and THEN call in the surveyor.

Nomad
I did misunderstand you. That makes sense. In the states the market is generally softer in the fall too with owners looking at haul and storage fees.

I think you will find the boat market to be a flaky unpredictable beast. You'll see swings in some specific models based on compsa nd what is on the market at a given moment -- totally unrelated to the broader market. You'll find seasonal fuctuations (like above). But you'll also find boats in tremendously different shape and state of outfitting priced similarly. There is no rhyme and the economy only impacts it to a certain degree -- after all these are people who have and or want boats -- you are not shopping for hungry roadside laborers to exploit. We are all varying degrees of well to do -- even if that is a *chosen* poverty on our boat. It never ceases to amaze me what some owners will suffer through to "get their price" including paying storage and slip and maintenence fees for many months if not years . . . and yet they do.

So don't expect too much more -- the market is well off where it was 3 years ago (I'd guess 30-50% in some cases).

Make sure you enjoy the search -- its definitely half the fun.

Luck
-M
__________________
Mambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:56   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Sucker's Market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
I've been told repeatedly that it's a buyer's market. Somehow, the sellers in my area have not gotten the message. It seems everywhere I look, somebody is trying to 'load me into the boat'. I've been looking at boats, some of which have 25 year-old sails, which I believe are end of life, and yet the prices are still high.

I was recently questioned on this forum for even considering a 1988 Catalina 30 which was asking $32,000 Canadian. Some of the other 30s (similar production boats) of the same era that I have looked at have had asking prices in the low to mid forties. Looking at newer boats, say 2005 or 2006, the asking price is as high as a new boat.

If I were ten years younger, I would skip the used boat market altogether. I don't want to buy someone's worn out and used up boat at a high price, or pay an even more outrageous price for something newer. I've heard that with production boats, used but late model is the way to go, but not if I have to pay the price of a new boat.

I'm starting to get fed up with the whole used boat market in my area. I may have to shop elsewhere, or give up the idea of 'the cruising life' altogether.

There's always the Dominican Republic.

Nomad
So you're getting a boat which is at the very most 50% through it's lifespan (23 years old and should last the same again) for 20% of the cost new, and you might have to spend $3K on sails. Yep, sounds like you've got lots to complain about. Maybe you should spend it on a car instead? (new car for $32K, worthless in 10 years)

Why don't you just buy that Catalina and go sailing?
__________________

__________________
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.