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Old 20-10-2015, 17:12   #61
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Boat: Burger 74' motor yacht, 65 foot 12 metre, Flicka and sailing dinghy
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

I have cruised a little and work offshore. So let me continue
As a Canadian, you are eligible to register under the British Flag or any other commonwealth country, in general. I used Jersey because they are fast and efficient, and the registration is good for 10 years. but since I am American I had to do it through a British corporation.
The only hassle with the British system (UK, Jersey, Cayman Islands etc) is that you are required to get a tonnage survey, by an approved surveyor. If you are not near England or cannot find a surveyor that the jurisdiction will accept, you are out of luck. If you are in the USA you can find one I am sure, maybe in Ft. Lauderdale, but you will have to do some digging. And it will probably cost a few hundred bucks plus their travel costs.
If you get an address with St. Brendans, Delaware really is the way to go. they do not ask for ID. All they want is your documents, your money and an address to send the registration to. You have to buy the number decals and put them on.
Delaware is quite picky with documents. the bill of sale has to be notarized. If the boat is not from a state that issues titles, you need to send in the ORIGINAL registration, not a photocopy.You have to say you intend to use the vessel in Delaware state waters wink wink. they do not care in truth. If you do it right and use Fed Ex too, it will be under two weeks and three years' registration will cost you $60.
One of my boats here in Antigua is USCG, another is Jersey, and one is Delaware. Have had no issues at all with Delaware and have never heard of anyone encountering problems. Maybe if you went to China or Russia cruising, where no one ever goes.??
In fact when my Jersey boat got to Antigua, the delivery captain checked in using the expired temporary registration and no one noticed.
No one "looks up" your registration to see if you own it, if you are talking about a lil' sailboat. The one thing they are picky about is seeing if you checked out properly from the last jurisdiction.
You might consider buying a boat already down in cruising grounds. It's a buyer's market generally. I speak of the Eastern Caribbean. Just like anywhere, there are people holding out for top dollar, and there are people who wait for a long time and will make a deal.
For example, there are 167 sailboats under 80 feet for sale in St. Martin. If you fly there, you can find something you like. Great place to have work done. For example, I saw this 28 foot Dufour for $19,500. It has a noisy one banger engine, but it was well maintained. The owner is said to have two boats. I do not know him
1979 Dufour 28 Sail Boat For Sale -

then, you don't have to bash against the wind and waves to get down here.

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
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Old 20-10-2015, 17:53   #62
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

Perhaps if you're not in some kind of witness protection plan you could share your nationality. This may be helpful in suggestions for registration and/or documentation.


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Old 20-10-2015, 18:19   #63
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

another option/solution would be to go through the naturalization process and become a us citizen. then you can document through the uscg

Path to U.S. Citizenship | USCIS

not that hard, read/write english, highschool level civics and have been here legally
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Old 31-10-2015, 08:01   #64
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

Nice info here (and congrats on the Orion 27), and it stirred up the rusty braincells of things I went through a few years back (first big crash in boat prices, I almost picked up a boat then), when it sank in with me that there were implications with sailing in EU waters on a vessel that wasn't tax paid (VAT 20%) - or old enough to be pre-VAT.

Jersey and the Isle of Man made sense to be able to go around the Med and stay a while without getting expensive grief. At the time, I think the Isle of Man had the edge over Jersey, but there wasn't a lot in it, and it may not hold true today.

Personally if I buy from USA (long keel solid build like your Orion, max about 33ft, easy to set up for solo disabled sailing) I will immediately register with either Jersey, Isle of Man, or, one I hadn't looked at, BVI. Maybe there are others worth considering too, and I am not sure how BVI registration will fare with cruising in EU waters. Frankly I am looking to get out of EU water pretty fast (even southern Spain and Portugal are a bit too cold for me in the Winter, sad to say), and to stay out for a while until I at least get some health issues sorted. So I will cast off from America under a foreign flag, if I don't find something suitable over here. I don't cope with bureaucratic imposed stress well.

But I do want to be able to visit friends and family in Southern Spain now and again, and if on a late Spring through to early Autumn visit, I could easily hit problems I think.

A pertinent issue is if a secondhand boat is purchased for export under a foreign flag, is there still a tax liability with the purchase?

If tax is already paid on a new boat, why is there tax on a secondhand boat? This used to be considered an illegal concept, and under Common Law, still might be, which would make such tax legislation illegal (just takes someone to pursue it I suppose). In the EU's case, they just make it up as they go along (as their judges have admitted), which can cause all manner of unforeseeable problems that I don't want to run into accidentally.

So if you wish to cruise the Med at some point, I would take a serious look at the Channel Islands and Isle of Man registration options?
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Old 31-10-2015, 08:27   #65
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

Ok some useful info (I hope) re Isle of Man Registration. Though an eta: It 'may' be difficult for non-residents in both IoM and Jersey to get on the SSR. BVI or elsewhere may well prove more useful by the look of it.

A 'small ship' is defined as a locally owned (for registration I am pretty sure that means ownership of over a 50% share in a vessel registered with the Isle of Man, and it must be over 50% to register* this may well be very wrong!) vessel of under 24 mtrs in length.

As an aside, the International Certificate of Competence gives coverage for EU Med waters for vessels up to 10 mtrs in length (one of the reasons why my upper size limit for a boat is 33ft, others include the not insubstantial reductions in running costs).

The Isle of Man Small Ships Certificate of registry is £35.

The Isle of Man AB Certificate of Competency (not sure how this compares to the ICC, and I'll personally be going for the ICC, though this isn't necessary in Northern European waters at present - that may well change) is £23 (though if compatible it is a HUGE saving over the RYA fees). Table 11 here:

eta: If you follow the link to the guidance note below, you will see that Jersey is a LOT more expensive than the Isle of Man, but it is also important to note, that closing registration and proof of closing prior registration seems to be important (may be important for IoM as well), plus, confirmation documentation of ownership and ownership for the prior 5 years, etc., is important.

I'd get this well and truly sorted before casting off from America, tbh (and avoid 'agents' doing it for you, they really pile the charges on from what I have seen - with one outfit you are looking at about £1,500 for their 'trouble', for example, and you do not appear to need a 'middleman', deal with the governing bodies directly).
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Old 31-10-2015, 09:00   #66
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Re: Sold everything ... buying cruiser ... how to register?

Couldn't add this to the bottom of my posting above, timed out.

A page with useful British Registration info (handy confirmation of necessary documentation likely needed anywhere you seek to register - I might just bite the bullet and go with Part 1 registration, as with 5 year renewal, the 5 year fee isn't too bad for renewals):

It's also worth noting that under International Law, registration 'somewhere' is needed.

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