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Old 13-08-2009, 12:18   #31
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Between the Spouse & I?

[quote=First Mate;316837]yeah right. what if they just scare you by being crazy? what's the court going to do to help you if they just aren't normal people? It wasn't much money - just glad to get rid of the creep. What if he did something criminal just to get even with us? Personally, we don't have the nuts to fight with crazy people.

btw - he ended up selling the boat for less money than we tried to renegotiate, he had to fix the list of failed surveyed items, and he had to use a broker to sell it. we were so glad we didn't buy that boat from that horrible person. Saving a few grand to avoid broker's fees is not worth going through court, Lis Pendes, etc. for us. We have a life to live, not an axe to grind. If you have time and energy to take on a wackadoo in court to fuss over a few grand, more power to you.[/quote]

Duly noted;
1-We're pretty good at getting the pulse of the seller (& their level or grasp of SANITY) in a hour/two inspection, albeit thorough & experienced, asking questions about the blatantly obviously repairs/upgrades, lack of same & maint. issues, hours on engine, when oil was last changed, checking dipstick "just to know", examining EVERYTHING...it's what get's done when it's OUR money...our eyes are wide open and we ALWAYS...leave to go have some lunch/dinner & discuss same before coming back in a "while" with that offer. IF we think they're loonytoons(no reflection on the cartoon characters)....we don't even STOP for that meal...we simply point toward home & I set the cruise control.

IF we entered in to a contractual relationship w/that FSBO Owner, WE provide the contract & Deposit, in the form of a Check, and expect signature on that Contract w/i 48 hrs, & a signed copy faxed to my business # along w/a confirmation Phone call to further work out the details of this exchange, including but not limited to surveyor's inspection, report, contingencies for quotes regarding repairs identified by that report, etc. IF they wanna back out, OR we wanna back out...that check is either stopped, or if cleared, followed up on in court, & I don't give a rats azz how "whacko" they become...our last deposit was for $5k. My kids are grown & gone...I'll see them in small claims court and they'll PAY me, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE in fact "CRAZY". Judges aren't clueless & the more documentation the better. IF the contract says if we opt to bail we're owed our $$$ back, It As a Contract entered in to by sane people at the time, SPEAKS as a document for itself. They fly off the handle & become a raving lunatic in front of a judge...case closed. Getting the money back AFTER that judgment is a cinch.
As stated previously, didn't lose yet, don't expect to, ever, by going in to an Adversarial Relationship, focused around OUR Money and Their Representations of a Product with our (and contractually confirmed on their) parts with Eyes Wide Open. Only a crazy or foolish person would seek to screw me&mine. We learned, BY prevailing the 1st time.

It's reasonably concluded that You had no idea of their "wackiness" prior the relationship process necessary for buying/selling, however Never, EVER give them Your Home Number, Address, or other vital information which would allow victimization, at the slightest inkling of Your suspicions which became reality (which some clue had to be out there at 1st meeting) I'd involve a buyers broker also, IF we wanted the boat THAT Badly...which so far has been Never.

There's No WAY somebody is walking away w/Our Hard Earned Money, formerly, now, or in the future; annoying, nutjob, or otherwise. Not without a JUDGE telling me we were in the wrong. Agreed, for You, walking away was an expensive yet tolerable option. It's not for us.
Hopefully others learn from both our positions and enter/pursue this process with more education for potential pitfalls (including emotionally/mentally unstable SELLERS).

There are no "wrong" answers for a dilemma such as Yours' presented either, imo, just those outcomes we Can and Choose to live with. For some folks a couple grand down a rat hole, versus tons more w/boat probably "sabotaged" after the fact is a Very Smart Move. We try to find out their personal life situations (going thru a nasty divorce, lost spouse, was the spouses/parents' boat, etc.) by simply asking questions. We can't afford to throw away money & won't. We also, like You, caught in the RIGHT mess would likely do the same thing & call it 1 heluva well learned (& expensive) "life" lesson.
Peace,
-Mick
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Old 14-08-2009, 09:33   #32
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he only hosed us for $100 in the end

all your points are quite valid. We didn't know what we were doing when we put money down on that boat. We are quite a bit savvier now. It's just easier for us to let a buyer's broker deal with all the nonsense at the price range we are searching in, which is now over $200K.

I can certainly appreciate that any boat under $100K - save every nickel you can! Learn from our numb skull behaviour. Hang back a bit and be very careful with the FSBO's but proceed without a broker with caution if you have a little experience. The nut case sent us our deposit back in two checks with the two nasty letters he sent by registered mail.

It was not worth our while to go after the jerk for $100. We would have pondered long and hard before we would have chased after even $1000 - as batty as that guy was. Expensive lessons learned in life. Just need em once.

Couldn't tell he was a jerk until we signed the contract, tho. Really impossible to read some people at first. Don't think you can figure them out in an hour. Just assume they can always be a jerk or a nut until the deal is finally closed and finished. People will surprise you. Really.
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Old 14-08-2009, 10:17   #33
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all your points are quite valid. We didn't know what we were doing when we put money down on that boat. (1) We are quite a bit savvier now. It's just easier for us to let a buyer's broker deal with all the nonsense at the price range we are searching in, which is now over $200K.

I can certainly appreciate that any boat under $100K - save every nickel you can! Learn from our numb skull behaviour. Hang back a bit and be very careful with the FSBO's but proceed without a broker with caution if you have a little experience. (2) The nut case sent us our deposit back in two checks with the two nasty letters he sent by registered mail. (3)

It was not worth our while to go after the jerk for $100. (4) We would have pondered long and hard before we would have chased after even $1000 - as batty as that guy was. Expensive lessons learned in life. Just need em once. (5)

Couldn't tell he was a jerk until we signed the contract, tho. Really impossible to read some people at first. Don't think you can figure them out in an hour. (6) Just assume they can always be a jerk or a nut until the deal is finally closed and finished. People will surprise you. Really. (7)
From the #'s above:
1-& every reader who Profits (or is it "Prophets"? ) from our knowledge/experience in the school of hard knocks...well, that's what right here, IS FOR, imho...we all live & learn; the wisest of us are both willing AND ABLE (compliments of places Like These Boards) to learn from others the "what not to do".

2-Agreed, we've even gone on "sea trials" (very revealing indeed) BEFORE submitting offers, AT the Seller's suggestion. Seeing how they act , what they know (it is THEIR BOAT)..and Don't can be telling)...and the longer You can spend, ON the Boat, and WITH THEM, on, or OFF the boat, the better...every syllable gets digested like a sponge...not a game for the inexperienced.

3-that wasn't gleened from Your original posting(s) & agreed(again) a hundred dollars is a "write off"...in our most recent case, $5k? don't think so; Glad to know the scumbag did the right thing in the end for Your sakes, regardless the "nastygrams" attached...save them, they'll be quite a form of entertainment in a decade or 2 <--speaking from experience here.

4-as noted above, wouldn't waste our (or the court's) time either, glad it was that pittance in the end.

5-Amen, & for those who learn here, from us...awesome.

6-FirstMate...I trust my (FirstMate) "people advisor". A 34 yr veteran RN, 15 of them as the charge nurse of a Psych.Unit & Administrator of a Chem.Dependency Unit...she has a "SICK" acute ear/powers of observation...It's like living with a Psychic (dammit...) and invariably "right". Learned to go with HER Gut Decades ago. When she gets a squirrely gut...we're gone...like the wind. I've been wrong far more than her..such is marriage I guess (actually the times "right" in this marriage I have circled on the calendar & get celebrated like "anniversaries"..by me only, of course! )

7-It's almost never good to "assume". This is 1 of those "not" times. The bi-polar types, folks put in stress situations AFTER the contract was signed (spouse/child in hospital, divorce, etc) can complicate matters. Having a buyer's broker at these times could & would be very worthwhile. Especially (or always) in the price range You referenced. I've never spent that kind of money on a vessel (although have commanded close to it for restorations, after the fact and DID use a reputable broker to SELL THEM) ; would definitely use a broker, EITHER Side of the equation, in that range (& up)...just think the wife would smack me (HARD) for even suggesting same for pursuit. She HATES depreciating "things".
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Old 16-08-2009, 16:21   #34
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Everybody has covered the area quite well, I would only add that there are many brokers out there and only a few really good brokers. I good broker is worth his money as he will see to it that all the things you did not think of are brought to your attention and explain "how things work" to you. He is your "man." Do not use a seller's broker, hire "your man."
I looked for two years to find my boat - 2/3 of the boats I found myself, 1/3 third were found by the broker. It was quite an education. But my broker definitely earned his money sheparding me through the bidding, counter-bidding, and legal aspects of the sale. Good man.
I certainly could have done the whole thing myself but having "my man" at my shoulder making sure things were being done correctly since I had a bank loan involved, save me a lot of grief and worry.
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Old 16-08-2009, 20:20   #35
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I would only add that there are many brokers out there and only a few really good brokers.
It's like real estate. 20% of the brokers sell 80% of the boats. It's been that way since they invented commissions.
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Old 17-08-2009, 13:38   #36
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What broker in Minnesota?

Thanks again for all of the helpful advice! Does anyone have a recommendation for a broker in Minnesota? I have one broker I have been talking with, but I am not set on using him yet.
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Old 19-08-2009, 11:10   #37
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- - I don't understand the part about paying the seller a deposit directly? My broker took the deposit from me and put it in "escrow". If the terms of the sale are not upheld by either the seller or me, the buyer, then the escrow'ed deposit is disbursed to the appropriate side. The deposit was to show serious interest to actually purchase the vessel subject to "truth in disclosure" by the seller. The trial sail and out of water survey determines whether "everything" the buyer represented is actually true. If the seller was truthful and the buyer changes his mind, the escrow'ed deposit goes to the seller. If what the seller presented is not true the deposit is returned -or- you can bargain for better price and proceed again.
- - In my case I made it quite clear to "my man" (broker) that I would pay him for his time regardless of the final outcome. That removed the fear of not making the sale and not getting any payment for his time - result - a successful purchase and a broker who really worked for me - even after the sale suggesting places to haul and good workers and yards, etc.
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Old 20-08-2009, 10:16   #38
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FSBO and deposits with the seller

The seller would get the deposit in a FSBO if there is no Buyer's Broker - unless you can think up something else.
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Old 21-08-2009, 07:47   #39
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The seller would get the deposit in a FSBO if there is no Buyer's Broker - unless you can think up something else.
And at the first sign of "squirriley" on the part of seller, listening carefully/paying close attention, or the first reasonable question, that they don't have a reasonable answer for...either BAIL, or connect with a "buyer's broker" that others recommend. Let HIM handle the Seller if You are unfamiliar with the process (intimately). In the end, You probably will be glad You did...cheap insurance, and a disinterested third party in between can be a very good thing...folks selling boats are EXACTLY(often) like folks selling their own houses.....
"Emotionally Attached".
That emotion over rides logic necessary for healthy,
"reasonable" negotiations.
The negotiations get much more serious (some times) AFTER the results of that survey get received by all parties.
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Old 21-08-2009, 09:41   #40
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can't argue with you when you're right, which you are.
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