Should I buy a boat that has had extensive hull repairs?

[Marathon1150]

We discovered somewhat by accident that a boat we have made an offer on hit a reef about 2 years ago. Extensive repairs were made and the insurer paid. the repairs were made by a highly regarded suite of specialist boat yards and involved dropping the keel, fairing the hull and replacing the keel in addition to repairing the stringers and pan inside the boat. Should we walk away or should we revise our offer downward after learning of damage that cost more than 50% of the value of the boat? The boat has been otherwise well cared for and is well equipped. Any advice will be much appreciated.

[Kenomac]

Contact the surveyor placed in charge of overseeing the repairs by the insurance company. If the repairs were done properly, then there shouldn’t be an issue.

[Fore and Aft]

Exactly Kenomac there should be no problem if it has been repaired properly and there is documentation to support it.
My first yacht was sunk for three days before it was salvaged and I then replaced the keel, 50% of the port side, 30% of the starboard side and a new rudder. 22 years later she is still sailing.
Cheers

[JPA Cate]

Marathon,

The problem is the plexus. Imho, you need to do some really serious net searching, and then make your decision. The input from the surveyor Kenomac recommended will help, but ultimatelly, it is up to you if you want to have that kind of questionable join in your boat.

Ann

[Pete7]

What happens in the future if you decide to sell the yacht? will future buyers also be put off?

Pete

[Toccata]

G'Day
My yacht hit a reef and was subsequently repaired many years before I bought it.
Damage and repairs were not disclosed by the seller (there's a surprise!) or broker.
When I first found out about it, I was annoyed, but then went about discovering what had happened.
Bolt on keel replaced. Rudder repaired (poorly) and damage to hull repaired.
A really close inspection showed a well done repair. I was disappointed that I hadn't picked it up prior to purchase, I decided to analyse the reality in front of me. The thing I discovered was primarily an emotional reaction to a perceived problem that didn't have any basis in fact.
I don't think the boat is better than original, but practically it is no worse either.
Will it affect future resale. Possibly, but I still enjoy the yacht and will deal with that issue when and if it arises.
A general question for the group...
Should I reveal the repairs to a buyer if they don't discover the repairs???
What level of incident should be reported to a buyer? Scratch? Hole? Loss of keel? Hard to define a level I reckon!
Buyer beware?
Only discuss the issue if asked directly?
Stay out of the sale process and leave it to the broker and surveyor?
I'll be interested to read others opinions

[barnakiel]

One cannot say. Since the boat was not written off, it was repairable. If she was fixed well, she is good.


b.

[danielamartindm]

If the repairs were properly done (and you should ascertain that as best as possible), you can certainly purchase the boat with confidence that it's performance and seaworthiness will not have been affected; that said, when you sell the vessel, you may find that buyers will not share that opinion and will proffer lower bids. You can't blame them- in the course of negotiations, they're always looking to find reasons why the boat is worth less than you think it is. IMHO, I would do the same- reduce your offer by what you deem a reasonable amount, and build that safeguard into your investment in the vessel. The next buyers likely will as well, whether it's "justified" or not.

[LakeSuperior]

If one does not disclose a major repair prior to a sale what does that say about the seller as a fair decent upstanding person.

I agree that if the repair is proper then no issue. The problem, as noted, is to determine whether or not the repair is proper. I guess I would get a professional preferably an engineer to take a look at the repair.

[doug1957]

We bought a boat that had some extensive repairs after being dropped off a lift and a hard grounding. The repairs were well done, and actually addressed some common issues in this particular model. If the repairs were done under an insurance claim, there should at least be a yard bill itemizing what was done, and a surveyors report that may show the ongoing repairs and the completed assessment. You should ask for these to see if they're available.

[TrentePieds]

Quote:"...should we revise our offer downward after learning of damage that cost more than 50% of the value of the boat?"

The historic cost of such a repair has no bearing on the market value of the boat PROVIDED the repair was "properly" done. "Properly" has to mean to the satisfaction of a qualified surveyor who would have documented the scope of work and the quality of it. The "Properly repaired boat" would then have a market value commensurate with every other boat of the make, model and year.

You have not mentioned the make and model of the boat not its age. We can not therefore, form any idea of what the FMV of the bat would be, nor, speaking for myself, can I form any idea of what sort of bid I would make for it. You say it is a boat you've already made an offer on, and that you discovered its history "somewhat by accident". There is only one circumstance in which you can withdraw your offer, viz that the seller (or his broker) DELIBERATELY withheld MATERIAL information from you. If the seller (or his broker) offered a survey that discloses the history of the repair PRIOR to your making the offer, then, regardless of whether you read the survey or not, you have, I would think, bought a boat if the seller accepts the offer.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do think that if you want to wiggle out, you'd better let one of them handle it.

TrentePieds

[Paul L]

I purchased a boat that had had an undisclosed hard grounding under power and repair. I found out about it a few weeks after taking delivery from some e who was on the boat at the time. Over the next couple of years I found some additional damage that I believe was from the initial grounding. A hard to find crack in an engine mount and a crack in the strut.
If I was in your shoes and could get some professional verification that the repairs were done properly, I would negotiate a discount on the sales price. The broker/seller has little to stand on as they did not disclose this significant issue.

[roverhi]

The repairs will be a negative for most buyers when you sell the boat. Doesn't matter whether the repairs were done properly and boat is as good or better than new. People are just leery of something that has been extensively damaged whether it's rational or not. If you doubt, just check the prices of 'Salvage Title' cars vice ones that have a normal title.

Not that you shouldn't buy the boat, just that the price should represent the negatives of the repair. Of course, have a competent surveyor check out the boat and get the details and survey of the repair if possible. Any confidence you had in the honesty of the seller and their broker should be out the window if they didn't inform you of the damage and repair.

[Marathon1150]

Many thanks for all the good and well considered advice. Here are a few more details. The boat is a 1990 Beneteau First 35s5. Our offer was made based on a personal initial inspection of the boat in the water and the provision of a recent (4 months) insurance survey by the broker. The survey does not mention the grounding and consequent repairs. The broker did not mention them either. The seller provided list of recent repairs and upgrades via the broker but the list does not include any of the work done to repair the boat after the reef collision two years previously.

We hired a surveyor to do an in the water survey because of the recent out of the water survey. I was on board during the survey and I noted that the bilge was very clean and the keel bolts were stainless. We already own a Beneteau and we are familiar with the normally iron bolts that hold on the iron keel. I made a note of the stainless bolts and their very new appearance.

The owner's list of work indicated that the discontinuous rod rigging was tuned earlier this year and I contacted the company that did this to ask if they inspected the rigging as a part of the tuning. They indicated that they did not inspect the rigging only tuned it and that this was the second time in two years because the boat was in their yard and the rig was down. When I asked why the rig was down I was told that the boat was in for repairs required by a grounding.

We asked the broker about this and he said "first I have heard of it" and immediately called the owners. Listening to his side of the conversation it was clear that they had disclosed this information to him but he had either forgotten or did not think it important enough to pass it on. We asked for the boat yard bill and final insurance claim and he provided these documents within about 30 minutes.

We are now pursuing opinions from other brokers regarding the possible impact of the repairs on downstream resale value in addition to opinions from our insurance broker (who also insures this boat) regarding why they chose to repair the boat rather than declare it a constructive total loss. And, will they insure this boat for us given its history and at what agreed value.

We will also be contacting the settlement surveyor as suggested f in this thread for their opinion regarding the quality of the repairs. As noted in my original post, the 3 boat yards involved in the 5 months of repair work all have sterling reputations. We have a list of hours worked and of every scrap of material used in the repairs.

Again, many thanks for the very helpful comments.

[flyingfin]

Or get a good insurance policy in the event the repairs were not enough to repair all the damage done and the boat sinks to the bottom. Buyer Beware!