Sails and Rigging Made in China

[reiner]

Here in Australia some of the big companies are complaining that people bypass the shops and import to much gear from overseas, manly China. They argue that no GSt is paid and they can't compete.
I bought two solar regulators in china for $28 landed in my letterbox( 2 off them). The same regulators cost here $54 each. I saved $80 . The retailers here are to greedy and have coursed people to shop around. The markup on stuff here in Australia is shocking. I own a small business building camper trailers and I know how hard it is trying to build a good product at the right price and stay alive but some of the big businesses are just going overboard and they will come undone in the long run. It's not only that people are sick and tired of it, they are running out of money too. everybody seems to be in on the big kill at the moment including the government.
I try to support the local industry and try to spend my money here in Australia but not if somebody is having a go at me and sells me Chinese stuff with a 500% markup.
My Mate is buying his sails in China at half the cost. But he wis buying his rigging here in Oz hopefully getting a better quality.
Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks
Reiner

[blgklr]

Once upon a time I was employed by Hershey, then they closed the factory and moved the equipment to a new plant in Mexico. In Mexico they pay the workers $60 per week. Prices for product stayed the same. Now I won't touch a HERSHEY product. Milton must be rolling in his grave at what has become of his company. It's not about workers it's about shareholders and a lot of US sails are made in China but the customer is not aware of that.

[reiner]

Originally Posted by blgklr

Once upon a time I was employed by Hershey, then they closed the factory and moved the equipment to a new plant in Mexico. In Mexico they pay the workers $60 per week. Prices for product stayed the same. Now I won't touch a HERSHEY product. Milton must be rolling in his grave at what has become of his company. It's not about workers it's about shareholders and a lot of US sails are made in China but the customer is not aware of that.

The problem I am having with the way they do business is the dishonesty.
Fair would be if you had a choice and they said ok you can buy this product made in china for $200 or this product made here for $400. But that is not how it works and specially here in Australia a lot of small manufacturers go broke.
We are loosing having a choice and one day we pay top dollars for badly made products with no options.....scary.

[capnorv]

Back in the 90's I bought a Lee mainsail, I got what I paid for...luckily it was a boat that sailed poorly in the first place, a Reinell 22 lol. In 2005 we bought a new Genoa, which still shines. I will never use another loft if I can help it. The Loft I recommend is Carol Hasse's, Hasse Sails in Port Townsend Washington, definitely a class act! The owner even brought it 100 miles to the boat and hanked it on herself, and I can't imagine any of their sails being stiched across the ocean.

[Bash]

I've had two sets of UK sails, both of which were made in Hong Kong, delivered with new boats. One set was awful, the other was fine.

As far as I'm concerned, Chinese sails are a roll of the dice. That said, I once bought a UK main that they wanted to build in their Hong Kong loft, and I insisted it be built in Sweden. When the sail arrived, the spreader patches didn't match up with the spreaders.

I haven't dealt with UK since then, preferring to have my sails built here in my own country. The two made-in-the-USA sails I've had built since my divorce with UK have been perfect.

[smurphny]

Originally Posted by bewitched

So you're saying the OP (an Australian) should buy American made sails?

Just suggesting it may benefit your local sailmaker and economy to employ him/her rather than a sweatshop operator in China. China is undercutting almost everyone by paying very low wages to what amounts to slave labor and unfair government currency manipulation. There must be many first rate sailmakers in OZ who need the business and can't afford to work for a dollar a day.

[Suniday]

Having both Genco and Neil Pryde sails, there is little observable difference in the amount of sowing and sail tape needed for repairs. The Genco website indicates that they manufacture their sails in Toronto, and at least some of Neil Pryde sails are made in US. The Neil Pryde sail I use comes from Hong Kong, and I have had no notable issues with it. Supporting your local sail-makers who make a good product is preferable when it is possible.

There are corporations here in the US who operate under the guidelines smurphy describes, and I have found that the best way to address this is to exemplify your personal preference when you spend your money.

[Icarus]

I bought Lee sails for all my yachts in Honk Kong..the price is about halve of Aussi prices, service is fast. Quality is excellent, you can pick what brand of cloth you want...I payed 1000 AUD 2 years ago for a conventional cut mainsail, 8oz, battens and sailcover included. so why would I buy a sail in OZ for 3500$. They use a computer to cut cut and design the sail..The trouble is that a lot of services in Australia are gone trendy...
Happy sailing!

[sisiutl]

I just received my main sail supplied by Island Planet Sails and manufactured by China Sail Factory. It is an excellent sail and I am very pleased with both the sail and the expertise of Dave from IPS.

[islandplanet]

Thank you for your kind words Bob. It's been a great pleasure working with you over the past several years and what's amounted to 64,000 or so miles on Sisiutl. I love having sails on boats like yours because it really validates what we do.

Some thoughts for those thinking about ordering direct from an overseas loft rather than from a sailmaker who contracts with a good loft they can trust their reputation to:

Did you know that many of the lofts that deal direct with consumers are in essence forced to because their standards aren't high enough to attract business from reputable sailmakers in the US and Europe? I've been in some of those lofts and looked inside the cardboard rolls that the sailcloth comes on and seen the little red stamped word "Seconds". That's correct. A lot of the cloth sourced to achieve the low prices is second quality and sold in some cases for pennies on the dollar.

Great sails require top notch design, excellent material and hardware, and of course properly construction methodology. I've looked at the measurement sheets supplied by some of these lofts that deal direct and in most cases, they aren't even collecting the details needed to assure proper sheeting angle for a headsail. Even though our designer has been at it for 35 years, he cannot guarantee a sail will sheet properly without knowing how the tracks are situated. That's why we have our customers take measurements to the fore and aft ends of the track from deck/forestay intersection and from aloft. Those combined with a few sheers measurements taken down to the waterline insure the sail will fit the boat properly.

If you are purchasing anything over the internet you should be able to pay with a credit card or paypal. I know some of the lofts that deal direct require a wire transfer. This leaves the consumer with zero recourse if there is a problem like the sail not fitting. If you can't use your Visa/MC, that should be a huge red warning flag.

Arguing about globalization is pointless IMHO. There have been benefits to both east and west. For instance, do you know that GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US? And while there may still be some sweatshop in China, particularly in the garment industry and counterfeit goods market, the CSF loft is virtually indistinguishable from a production loft in the US or Europe. Workers have excellent working conditions and opportunity for advancement. They get a couple of 10 or 12 day breaks a year plus other shorter holiday periods. All in all, I think they may get more days off than some American workers.

[sisiutl]

I had a main sail built in another Asian loft (NOT China Sail Factory) that prematurely failed in the 24x7 rigors of sailing in South Pacific. The failure was fabric, not quality of workmanship. I have long suspected it was due to sub-standard material.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by reiner

A good friend of mine got a quote for his mainsail here in Australia and another quote in China. The sail from China is pretty much half price to what we pay here. His rigging needs doing too.
What are the thoughts on buying in China?
I know they have been building boats long enough so in general it can't be to bad or is it?
Thanks
Reiner

I'd suggest ringing around Aussie sailmakers and asking if they have "end of roll" sailcloth. I got a main and headsail in a good quality cruise laminate from Gary Saxby (UK Halsey) at a very good price. He also delivered and fitted the sails.

Much better to have the sailmaker local in case any alterations are needed, IMO.

[perchance]

Originally Posted by smurphny

Indeed. We should view the "outsourcers" as traitors, pure and simple. They have demonstrated that they have no loyalty to their countrymen and no sense of ethics. If left to the end-game of these people, all North American workers will soon be working under the same sweat shop conditions as those in China and India. There will be only two classes: the super rich and the serfs.

Is this not the stuff revolutions are made of?

[Unicorn Dreams]

Buy your sails from China if you want..

Good quality, price, etc.

Paid $4300 USD for my new sails, 125% jib.
Fully battened main with all lines cam cleats, 2 reef points, etc.
Mizzen same as main with one reef point.
All sails are cruising built, triple stitched, leather chafe patches.

Saved $7K from the best US price, thats a lot of cruising chips.

Last set of Lee Sails on Santana did an RTW with no problems

[smurphny]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

Buy your sails from China if you want..

Good quality, price, etc.

Paid $4300 USD for my new sails, 125% jib.
Fully battened main with all lines cam cleats, 2 reef points, etc.
Mizzen same as main with one reef point.
All sails are cruising built, triple stitched, leather chafe patches.

Saved $7K from the best US price, thats a lot of cruising chips.

Last set of Lee Sails on Santana did an RTW with no problems

Wow, that is a lot of difference! Sounds like the other quotes were trying to stick it to you. I found, in the construction business, that you can pay a lot or a little for absolutely the SAME labor and materials...all domestic. The trick is to do the homework, shop everyone's prices, and negotiate so you get the best deal. There are always very high prices from folks trying to hit homeruns at your expense. Another option is to sew your own. I sewed my own trysail recently from a Sailrite kit. This is a good option because you can get computerized design, pre-cut pieces, the material you want, and really make sure it is done right. I don't know if I'd want to tackle a complicated racing design made from high-tech sailcloth but for everyday cruising sails you can get a lot for a little if you have the time. It IS time consuming.