Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2011, 15:58   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
reiner's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brisbane
Boat: 39ft Challenger and a 16ft Scruffie " Oma Martha"
Posts: 266
Images: 6
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Here in Australia some of the big companies are complaining that people bypass the shops and import to much gear from overseas, manly China. They argue that no GSt is paid and they can't compete.
I bought two solar regulators in china for $28 landed in my letterbox( 2 off them). The same regulators cost here $54 each. I saved $80 . The retailers here are to greedy and have coursed people to shop around. The markup on stuff here in Australia is shocking. I own a small business building camper trailers and I know how hard it is trying to build a good product at the right price and stay alive but some of the big businesses are just going overboard and they will come undone in the long run. It's not only that people are sick and tired of it, they are running out of money too. everybody seems to be in on the big kill at the moment including the government.
I try to support the local industry and try to spend my money here in Australia but not if somebody is having a go at me and sells me Chinese stuff with a 500% markup.
My Mate is buying his sails in China at half the cost. But he wis buying his rigging here in Oz hopefully getting a better quality.
Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks
Reiner
__________________

__________________
reiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 19:58   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 146
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Once upon a time I was employed by Hershey, then they closed the factory and moved the equipment to a new plant in Mexico. In Mexico they pay the workers $60 per week. Prices for product stayed the same. Now I won't touch a HERSHEY product. Milton must be rolling in his grave at what has become of his company. It's not about workers it's about shareholders and a lot of US sails are made in China but the customer is not aware of that.
__________________

__________________
blgklr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 20:06   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
reiner's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brisbane
Boat: 39ft Challenger and a 16ft Scruffie " Oma Martha"
Posts: 266
Images: 6
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by blgklr View Post
Once upon a time I was employed by Hershey, then they closed the factory and moved the equipment to a new plant in Mexico. In Mexico they pay the workers $60 per week. Prices for product stayed the same. Now I won't touch a HERSHEY product. Milton must be rolling in his grave at what has become of his company. It's not about workers it's about shareholders and a lot of US sails are made in China but the customer is not aware of that.
The problem I am having with the way they do business is the dishonesty.
Fair would be if you had a choice and they said ok you can buy this product made in china for $200 or this product made here for $400. But that is not how it works and specially here in Australia a lot of small manufacturers go broke.
We are loosing having a choice and one day we pay top dollars for badly made products with no options.....scary.
__________________
reiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 20:23   #34
Registered User
 
capnorv's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bainbridge Island Washington on the Salish Sea
Boat: Hardin 45 Voyager Alice B., Gig Harbor 10, Orca 7 1/2 sloop, 16' sea kayak
Posts: 364
Images: 1
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Back in the 90's I bought a Lee mainsail, I got what I paid for...luckily it was a boat that sailed poorly in the first place, a Reinell 22 lol. In 2005 we bought a new Genoa, which still shines. I will never use another loft if I can help it. The Loft I recommend is Carol Hasse's, Hasse Sails in Port Townsend Washington, definitely a class act! The owner even brought it 100 miles to the boat and hanked it on herself, and I can't imagine any of their sails being stiched across the ocean.
__________________
capnorv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 20:40   #35
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

I've had two sets of UK sails, both of which were made in Hong Kong, delivered with new boats. One set was awful, the other was fine.

As far as I'm concerned, Chinese sails are a roll of the dice. That said, I once bought a UK main that they wanted to build in their Hong Kong loft, and I insisted it be built in Sweden. When the sail arrived, the spreader patches didn't match up with the spreaders.

I haven't dealt with UK since then, preferring to have my sails built here in my own country. The two made-in-the-USA sails I've had built since my divorce with UK have been perfect.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 21:38   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 586
Images: 3
Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
So you're saying the OP (an Australian) should buy American made sails?
Just suggesting it may benefit your local sailmaker and economy to employ him/her rather than a sweatshop operator in China. China is undercutting almost everyone by paying very low wages to what amounts to slave labor and unfair government currency manipulation. There must be many first rate sailmakers in OZ who need the business and can't afford to work for a dollar a day.
__________________
smurphny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 23:22   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sarasota
Boat: none
Posts: 16
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Having both Genco and Neil Pryde sails, there is little observable difference in the amount of sowing and sail tape needed for repairs. The Genco website indicates that they manufacture their sails in Toronto, and at least some of Neil Pryde sails are made in US. The Neil Pryde sail I use comes from Hong Kong, and I have had no notable issues with it. Supporting your local sail-makers who make a good product is preferable when it is possible.

There are corporations here in the US who operate under the guidelines smurphy describes, and I have found that the best way to address this is to exemplify your personal preference when you spend your money.
__________________
Suniday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2011, 21:10   #38
Registered User
 
Icarus's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Brisbane
Boat: S&S 40
Posts: 33
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

I bought Lee sails for all my yachts in Honk Kong..the price is about halve of Aussi prices, service is fast. Quality is excellent, you can pick what brand of cloth you want...I payed 1000 AUD 2 years ago for a conventional cut mainsail, 8oz, battens and sailcover included. so why would I buy a sail in OZ for 3500$. They use a computer to cut cut and design the sail..The trouble is that a lot of services in Australia are gone trendy...
Happy sailing!
__________________
Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2011, 23:23   #39
Registered User
 
sisiutl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Any ocean of the world-now in Pacific
Boat: Gulfstar ketch, 44' sv Sisiutl
Posts: 16
I just received my main sail supplied by Island Planet Sails and manufactured by China Sail Factory. It is an excellent sail and I am very pleased with both the sail and the expertise of Dave from IPS.
__________________
Bob and Alexandria
www.sailblogs.com/member/sisiutl
sisiutl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2011, 12:52   #40
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US/MX West coast
Posts: 465
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Thank you for your kind words Bob. It's been a great pleasure working with you over the past several years and what's amounted to 64,000 or so miles on Sisiutl. I love having sails on boats like yours because it really validates what we do.

Some thoughts for those thinking about ordering direct from an overseas loft rather than from a sailmaker who contracts with a good loft they can trust their reputation to:

Did you know that many of the lofts that deal direct with consumers are in essence forced to because their standards aren't high enough to attract business from reputable sailmakers in the US and Europe? I've been in some of those lofts and looked inside the cardboard rolls that the sailcloth comes on and seen the little red stamped word "Seconds". That's correct. A lot of the cloth sourced to achieve the low prices is second quality and sold in some cases for pennies on the dollar.

Great sails require top notch design, excellent material and hardware, and of course properly construction methodology. I've looked at the measurement sheets supplied by some of these lofts that deal direct and in most cases, they aren't even collecting the details needed to assure proper sheeting angle for a headsail. Even though our designer has been at it for 35 years, he cannot guarantee a sail will sheet properly without knowing how the tracks are situated. That's why we have our customers take measurements to the fore and aft ends of the track from deck/forestay intersection and from aloft. Those combined with a few sheers measurements taken down to the waterline insure the sail will fit the boat properly.

If you are purchasing anything over the internet you should be able to pay with a credit card or paypal. I know some of the lofts that deal direct require a wire transfer. This leaves the consumer with zero recourse if there is a problem like the sail not fitting. If you can't use your Visa/MC, that should be a huge red warning flag.

Arguing about globalization is pointless IMHO. There have been benefits to both east and west. For instance, do you know that GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US? And while there may still be some sweatshop in China, particularly in the garment industry and counterfeit goods market, the CSF loft is virtually indistinguishable from a production loft in the US or Europe. Workers have excellent working conditions and opportunity for advancement. They get a couple of 10 or 12 day breaks a year plus other shorter holiday periods. All in all, I think they may get more days off than some American workers.
__________________
islandplanet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2011, 16:45   #41
Registered User
 
sisiutl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Any ocean of the world-now in Pacific
Boat: Gulfstar ketch, 44' sv Sisiutl
Posts: 16
I had a main sail built in another Asian loft (NOT China Sail Factory) that prematurely failed in the 24x7 rigors of sailing in South Pacific. The failure was fabric, not quality of workmanship. I have long suspected it was due to sub-standard material.
__________________
Bob and Alexandria
www.sailblogs.com/member/sisiutl
sisiutl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2011, 17:59   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,452
Images: 69
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by reiner View Post
A good friend of mine got a quote for his mainsail here in Australia and another quote in China. The sail from China is pretty much half price to what we pay here. His rigging needs doing too.
What are the thoughts on buying in China?
I know they have been building boats long enough so in general it can't be to bad or is it?
Thanks
Reiner
I'd suggest ringing around Aussie sailmakers and asking if they have "end of roll" sailcloth. I got a main and headsail in a good quality cruise laminate from Gary Saxby (UK Halsey) at a very good price. He also delivered and fitted the sails.

Much better to have the sailmaker local in case any alterations are needed, IMO.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2011, 18:11   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Indeed. We should view the "outsourcers" as traitors, pure and simple. They have demonstrated that they have no loyalty to their countrymen and no sense of ethics. If left to the end-game of these people, all North American workers will soon be working under the same sweat shop conditions as those in China and India. There will be only two classes: the super rich and the serfs.
Is this not the stuff revolutions are made of?
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2011, 22:42   #44
Registered User
 
Unicorn Dreams's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Clear Lake Marine Services - Seabrook, Texas
Boat: Gulfstar, Mark II Ketch, 43'
Posts: 2,359
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Buy your sails from China if you want..

Good quality, price, etc.

Paid $4300 USD for my new sails, 125% jib.
Fully battened main with all lines cam cleats, 2 reef points, etc.
Mizzen same as main with one reef point.
All sails are cruising built, triple stitched, leather chafe patches.

Saved $7K from the best US price, thats a lot of cruising chips.

Last set of Lee Sails on Santana did an RTW with no problems
__________________
Formerly Santana
The winds blow true,The skies stay blue,
Everyday is a good day for SAILING!!!!
Unicorn Dreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-05-2011, 07:20   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 586
Images: 3
Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams View Post
Buy your sails from China if you want..

Good quality, price, etc.

Paid $4300 USD for my new sails, 125% jib.
Fully battened main with all lines cam cleats, 2 reef points, etc.
Mizzen same as main with one reef point.
All sails are cruising built, triple stitched, leather chafe patches.

Saved $7K from the best US price, thats a lot of cruising chips.

Last set of Lee Sails on Santana did an RTW with no problems
Wow, that is a lot of difference! Sounds like the other quotes were trying to stick it to you. I found, in the construction business, that you can pay a lot or a little for absolutely the SAME labor and materials...all domestic. The trick is to do the homework, shop everyone's prices, and negotiate so you get the best deal. There are always very high prices from folks trying to hit homeruns at your expense. Another option is to sew your own. I sewed my own trysail recently from a Sailrite kit. This is a good option because you can get computerized design, pre-cut pieces, the material you want, and really make sure it is done right. I don't know if I'd want to tackle a complicated racing design made from high-tech sailcloth but for everyday cruising sails you can get a lot for a little if you have the time. It IS time consuming.
__________________

__________________
smurphny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
China, rigging, sails, china

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Sails & Rigging Cost for a 40-50' Sailboat BillAU Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 20 24-01-2010 14:14
For Sale: Racing Sails and Rigging for Jeanneau 37 jeffbrainard Classifieds Archive 3 13-11-2009 07:27
New 'Made in China' Prouts ? jacket_fan Multihull Sailboats 21 27-08-2009 05:39
Check Your 'Made in China' Hose Clamps ! svHyLyte Construction, Maintenance & Refit 37 08-12-2007 09:37
question about cost:bottom job, sails, rigging??? dustinp Construction, Maintenance & Refit 27 18-11-2007 06:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.