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Old 09-05-2011, 20:29   #16
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
One would think they would have perfected sail-making by now.
They have been doing it for 8 thousand years.
Were I junk-rigged, I'd agree. But recall they invented gunpowder, too, but only in the West did the science of it evolve into the gunboat diplomacy of the 19th century.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:01   #17
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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I read an article in a sailing rag a few months ago about sailmaking. Most of the sails from the big companies are made in China. You pay a US company thinking you're getting a made in the US product and it turns out that it's made somewhere else anyway. You don't know unless you know.
There are lots of sails made in China, Brazil, Thailand, etc. The main I got w/ my boat was made in Brazil and is very well made. Even the sailcloth used here is probably made in some sweathouse in China. It's almost impossible to avoid globalism. Just making the point that our craftsmen have been sold out and maybe people should think about more than just how cheap they can get stuff.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:11   #18
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

I've lived in and around china for the last 15 years. Their sails are good. All my @ails are Chinese made. In fact most sails you will see will be China made as most of the main sail lofts around the world will have the sail built in China and then shipped.

I personally wouldn't touch any rigging made in China unless it the fabrication was managed by an international and noteworthy company.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:19   #19
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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If you buy sails made by American workers it allows those folks to live in the USA. More expensive....YES. If you buy from China, it takes the work away from those who would like to live in here the USA and gives it to people in China who work for pennies. You can act just like a large corporation. Keep buying from cheap countries until ALL our artisans and craftsmen are gone.
So you're saying the OP (an Australian) should buy American made sails?
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:14   #20
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

Far East sails, Lee sails, have a proven track record from long before the current good / bad Chinese product boom. as long as you give them all the correct measurements you will get an excellent cruising sail, if they have any doubts about the info received they will come back to you to confirm what you sent them is correct.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:30   #21
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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If you buy sails made by American workers it allows those folks to live in the USA. More expensive....YES. If you buy from China, it takes the work away from those who would like to live in here the USA and gives it to people in China who work for pennies. You can act just like a large corporation. Keep buying from cheap countries until ALL our artisans and craftsmen are gone.
I agree with you. However, as has been mentioned, most sails sold in the US by US makers are made in China and shipped to the US for sale as new at a highly inflated price. You are asking the peons to help keep other peons at work for a while longer as the big boys figure out new ways to ship the work overseas anyway so they can pocket even more money. The game is rigged, there is no way out, so look out for yourself. Its cruel but true. Until the people demand an end to outsourcing of jobs and production, the people will always be stuck with this choice.

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Old 11-05-2011, 11:11   #22
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

I too am looking for new sails, I contacted a china sail maker, they could not deal with me so they put me to there local dealer, which then gave me a quote and in a round about way I got a email from a dealer 2 hours away from me.
The head office is in salem MA and I am now dealing with a canadian office that has basically hinted thet the sails come from china, are assembled in Ottawa and then shipped to me. savings hmm not really but they are a US company, with Canadian assemblers, fabricated by china.
The company is Doyal sails and I assume they have been around a while.
so it really dosent matter where you buy them, it just depends how many people touch them which depicts the final price.

If any has a true china sail maker that is not pooled into the big whigs I would be greatfull for an email addy
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:17   #23
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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So you're saying the OP (an Australian) should buy American made sails?
Absolutely . He should buy American sails, boats, beer, beef, cars, what have you.
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Old 11-05-2011, 15:14   #24
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

They don't make 4xxxx in america!!
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Old 11-05-2011, 15:51   #25
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
If you buy sails made by American workers it allows those folks to live in the USA. More expensive....YES. If you buy from China, it takes the work away from those who would like to live in here the USA and gives it to people in China who work for pennies. You can act just like a large corporation. Keep buying from cheap countries until ALL our artisans and craftsmen are gone.
I bought Neil Pride sails because they had FAR better "features" than the 4 other brands I got quotes from. My sails were actually the more expensive quote of the 4, and I didn't really know that they were "sewn" in Hong Kong, until some time later, as I was dealing with the US rep, and her well equipped Neil Pride sail loft.

Neither she, nor her 4 other US employees would have jobs, if we didn't buy their Hong Kong sewn products. (And, I seriously doubt that the talented person who sewed my sails in Hong Kong, only made pennies!)

I will gladly pay more for better quality, but will not intentionally buy a lesser quality for the sake of buying from the US either. The unfortunate truth is, that 90% + of what's available these days, (retail), seems to come from China. In the case of most of it... crap!

It is a shame that there isn't a "Wally World" that gets its products according to the country that makes it best, rather than the one who makes it cheapest! I KNOW the folks I hang out with would prefer that. QUALITY!

M.
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Old 11-05-2011, 16:27   #26
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

As a non Australian Living and refitting a boat in Australia I have been shocked at the rubbish that is sold here. the old saying of you get what you pay for does not apply here as the standard business model is buy cheap junk and mark it up to some of the worlds most expensive retail prices (often double/triple any other 1st world country). When you accept this and try to pay more in order to get quality it cant be found in this country, you need to import it.

So in this instance I try to buy everything I can from offshore (not necessarily china, often New Zealand) as its not worth the time of effort dealing with Australian businesses.

I REALLY hope this changes or Australia wont last as a viable retail economy.
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Old 11-05-2011, 17:16   #27
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Re: Sails and Rigging Made in China

I have several sails made in Thailand by Rolly Tasker. Good quality stuff made with American cloth. Keep in mind that Tasker and Lee are sail "builders" not sail "makers". If you want input on what a good sail would be for your specific boat this is where a local sail "maker" earns his keep. Often the sail maker will then outsource to the sail builder.
I also bought some 14mm wire from RT in Phuket, presumably Chinese. I had to return it as it would not fit my Hi-Mod ends and one of the strands was chingered for the entire length of the wire; a manufacturing error that made it onto the spool. I paid a little more for replacement wire from David at East Marine but it was quality stuff, made in USA. There are a lot of stainless fittings available in Thailand and Malaysia that are made in Thailand and reportedly good quality stuff. I have a lot of this in my running rigging and so far no issues.

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:25   #28
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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Originally Posted by SabreKai View Post
Until the people demand an end to outsourcing of jobs and production, the people will always be stuck with this choice.

Sabre
Indeed. We should view the "outsourcers" as traitors, pure and simple. They have demonstrated that they have no loyalty to their countrymen and no sense of ethics. If left to the end-game of these people, all North American workers will soon be working under the same sweat shop conditions as those in China and India. There will be only two classes: the super rich and the serfs.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:33   #29
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pirate Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Indeed. We should view the "outsourcers" as traitors, pure and simple. They have demonstrated that they have no loyalty to their countrymen and no sense of ethics. If left to the end-game of these people, all North American workers will soon be working under the same sweat shop conditions as those in China and India. There will be only two classes: the super rich and the serfs.
Should that not read... "There ARE only 2 Classes..."
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:37   #30
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Re: Sails and Rigging made in China.....

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Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
I bought Neil Pride sails because they had FAR better "features" than the 4 other brands I got quotes from. My sails were actually the more expensive quote of the 4, and I didn't really know that they were "sewn" in Hong Kong, until some time later, as I was dealing with the US rep, and her well equipped Neil Pride sail loft.

Neither she, nor her 4 other US employees would have jobs, if we didn't buy their Hong Kong sewn products. (And, I seriously doubt that the talented person who sewed my sails in Hong Kong, only made pennies!)

I will gladly pay more for better quality, but will not intentionally buy a lesser quality for the sake of buying from the US either. The unfortunate truth is, that 90% + of what's available these days, (retail), seems to come from China. In the case of most of it... crap!

It is a shame that there isn't a "Wally World" that gets its products according to the country that makes it best, rather than the one who makes it cheapest! I KNOW the folks I hang out with would prefer that. QUALITY!

M.
GM may have figured this out. They perpetrated absolute garbage upon the American car buyer for decades (think Chevy Vega). Unfortunately, they got bailed out with our tax dollars. Quality at the right price will always find buyers but given two equal products, I would rather pay a local guy to sew up a sail than a foreigner even if it costs a little more.
Nobody wants to get screwed, paying an exorbitant price. We are losing all our artisans. That is not good. Not everyone wants to or is cut out to sit in a cubicle shuffling papers, staring at a computer screen all day.
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