Relative costs

[harbourboy]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I don't think the operating/maintenance cost is much of a deal between those two sizes.. It can all add up if it needs big things though: engine, sails etc. There may be no difference at all in the amount of bottom paint needed... depending. Friends of mine cruised to OZ in a GS44..... or was it a 43? cant remember. Comfortable boats. I second the thought that the longer the boat, the better sea comfort and speed. But I could see that 38 being a bit easier to handle maybe also. It's all a trade off.
Buy a boat with the least big items needing redone. Boats with nothing wrong are always a project, boats purchased with a list to start are discouraging as hell.
After having boats in the 45 ft range I found it very hard to go back to smaller due to speed and comfort. 38 would be a nice size though. Watch waterline length, that determines how "big" the boat will feel more than overall length.
Have you considered Island Packet or others?

The Morgan 38 has been my choice for some time based on years of research and personal preference. IPs etc. are lovely but not in my price range. The Gulfstar just came into view recently.

[harbourboy]

Originally Posted by Suijin

Is it the old Morgan 38 or the Brewer design? If the former I'd take the Gulfstar over the Morgan even with the increased costs. It's a MUCH roomier boat, more modern design, significantly faster. It's kinda apples to oranges. The later style is actually very similar to the Gulfstar, although I think the Gulfstar holds a slight edge on build quality. I'd probably take whichever boat was in better condition and appeared better cared for, all other things being equal.

The Morgan is the 382. Been aboard her plus been studying the breed for a long time. But you're right - the GS is a lot more boat for, in this case, about the same money so very compelling. Great to hear from you. Thanks

[keepondancin]

The first impact I experienced, when I sold my Crealock 37, and went to the Bristol 41.1, was when I had to pick up the sails; almost put my back out. Now If I have to move them, I us a hand truck, use a halyard to get them from deck to dinghy, and grab help to throw them in the back of the truck. They get heavier every year. (or maybe I am just getting older). Cost on everything on the Bristol is one size larger, so there is an increased cost. Compare anchors, chain, running rigging, sails, dockage,deck fittings, furlers, etc. On the other hand, having an aft cabin, a heavier boat, and more room below to maneuver is a fair trade off. Now single handing, I would like to have my Crealock back

[harbourboy]

Originally Posted by keepondancin

The first impact I experienced, when I sold my Crealock 37, and went to the Bristol 41.1, was when I had to pick up the sails; almost put my back out. Now If I have to move them, I us a hand truck, use a halyard to get them from deck to dinghy, and grab help to throw them in the back of the truck. They get heavier every year. (or maybe I am just getting older). Cost on everything on the Bristol is one size larger, so there is an increased cost. Compare anchors, chain, running rigging, sails, dockage,deck fittings, furlers, etc. On the other hand, having an aft cabin, a heavier boat, and more room below to maneuver is a fair trade off. Now single handing, I would like to have my Crealock back

Good points. Have to say the GS appeals more for passengers and crew than for me for the reasons you point out. Can't argue with speed and comfort, though.

[JPA Cate]

Harbourboy wrote:

Good points. Have to say the GS appeals more for passengers and crew than for me for the reasons you point out. Can't argue with speed and comfort, though.

Good day, harbourboy. What follows is based on moving from a 36 footer to a 46 footer, "to sustain visits from grandchildren and their parents", which did not happen very much. Imo, you're not talking about that much more speed and comfort, anyway, unless you need to provide for passengers and crew. T That gets to the issue of how you will mainly use the boat. It is quite possible to buy a bigger boat, and then discover, like the chap with the 41 footer, now, that you would be happiest most of the time with the Morgan you've been romancing for a long while. How many days per year would you need to accommodate guests? How long would you want to entertain them? For 2 weeks every 2 years, I wouldn't turn away from a boat that pleases me for the illusions of a half knot, or even 1 knot overall average per day speed. Sailboats are slow. In a hurry, go via the great silver bird!

Now, if you're pretty certain you will do a lot of entertaining, that might be a different deal. But don't buy the GS, if all you need is crew for passages, because passages are the times when you're busiest, 24 hrs. on call, etc. People are sleeping or doing things. It is not crowded below decks.

I think the additional costs of the GS will eat away more quickly at your cruising kitty. The point above about the larger sails weighing more is well taken, none of us are getting younger. If you stay with hank-on sails, you'll be using the topping lift to get the headsail out of the locker. If you install a furler, it will be bigger, heavier, stronger, and more $$.

Ann

[harbourboy]

Hi Ann

Thanks so much for your time and thoughts. Points well taken. I really hope to entice friends and family to visit in the Caribbean and the aft cabin is a big selling feature in that scenario. I'm confident the decision will sort itself out when the time comes.

[sailorboy1]

I had a 39' boat and now have 43.5' boat. The 43.5' has been LESS expensive to maintain because it is newer. But if I adjust for the that the 43.5 boat has been around $200/YEAR more expensive, but the extra space has been PRICELESS.

Pretty much only the people who not purchase the bigger boat spin it as a huge cost increase.

[harbourboy]

Thanks Sailorboy. Most encouraging.

[GTom]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I had a 39' boat and now have 43.5' boat. The 43.5' has been LESS expensive to maintain because it is newer. But if I adjust for the that the 43.5 boat has been around $200/YEAR more expensive, but the extra space has been PRICELESS.

Pretty much only the people who not purchase the bigger boat spin it as a huge cost increase.

If you need the extra space, you need it, end of story.

That 200$ figure is interesting though, difference in mooring costs alone for +4.5'/1.3m would be more in most Mediterranean and EU-Atlantic Marinas I know.

I also did a bit of a cost assessment, the points I've considered:
#1 (easiest to find): mooring - sometimes rates are progressive (grow beyond linear) after ~40'
#2: devaluation - clear, more expensive boat looses more $$ in absolute terms.
#4: insurance - should go up linear (I've no quotes though)
#5: maintenance - no exact idea either, but everything gets more expensive with a bigger boat.

All in all, once you figured which cruising ground to sail, how many people you want to cater, try not to oversize. For a family of 4, even some "easier" passages (ARC, Coconut Milk Run) I plan around 38' (actual purchase is probably years ahead, I have a lot to learn till then). Initially I wanted <10m (33') mainly for cost considerations but - also from the cost side - the charter programs I favor for financing buy only larger vessels. Besides, I convinced myself that +2tons (7 vs 5t) of displacement should give a bit more comfort at choppy seas.

[Island Time O25]

How are you going to use the boat? Daysailing with occasional coastal cruises? Liveaboard? Long distance offshore runs? RTW plans? Family, kids, etc?

Unless you plan longish distances with more than a couple people aboard 38' would be a much more economical and relevant choice. If its coastal cruising with just you and your s/o then definitely 38'. Otherwise it's like buying an oversized 20 seat van when you only be using it for short drives to your local 7/11. Yes, at some point having such van will come in handy but you will definitely spend more keeping it waiting for such day then just renting one for the time when the need arises.

To sum up: long cruises/lot of people aboard/liveaborad - 44'. Daysails/coastal cruises/few people aboard - 38'.

[harbourboy]

First off, lovin' this community! Thanks everyone for weighing in. My short term goal is long term cruising in the Caribbean, hopefully with Mrs. Harbourboy on board. I have 3 grown kids who I hope to entice down from cold Nova Scotia winters for week long visits, with dear friends from home also on the guest list. If that goes well for a season or two, the Med is very enticing or I may transit the canal and see what mischief I can get into in the Pacific.
Short answer (I know, too late), I can accomplish my dreams with the Morgan 38 but this Gulfstar 44 would be great for company (aft cabin, centre cockpit, 2 heads) as well as a bit more stable platform should the horizon beckon. For me, there's a lot to be said for a good 'project boat' as I have the skills to save the bills and I like to know my boat inside and out. More than nuff said.

[Island Time O25]

Sounds like GS44 will be a better fit for you. Also it is already Florida/Bahamas rigged i.e. relatively short mast and a somewhat shallow keel. Actually those figures are on par with Morgan 38 both models originally designed with Florida/Bahamas travel in mind.

When my first boat, a 27 footer, became too small for my then needs I was going to move up to a 30-32ft. Mainly due to the fact that my sailing was (and still is) mostly days and short coastal weekends/weeks. Although I always had plans for more distant places I knew it would be years away. So when a 36 footer came up and it was in the same price range as the 30 footer I was seriously considering (both were in similar condition, etc) I jumped on it. While it is still a tad too large for my current needs and I do spend more than I would on a 30 footer (and considerably more than I did on a 27 footer), it is a great fit for me in all other respects. So I'm content to pay a yearly premium but I do get so much more in return compared to a 30 footer.

[harbourboy]

I agree but at the end of the day the dollar rules the decision. I would have to get the 44 for about half the asking price to make it work but stranger things have happened. Plus, I'm not making the move tomorrow. Interesting boats come on the market every day, right?