Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-04-2010, 11:19   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Kitts
Boat: 36' 2001 Fortuna Island Spirit Catamaran
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
Most carabean or Bahamas “flags” do not offer Radio licences or call signs nor MMSI numbers. So Also useless for me.
AFAIK BVI issues radio licenses.... Im not sure about call signs though, but I think they do, and Im sure Panama does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
Meanwhile, I still try to get as much info possible on the Gibraltar or Canadian options….
If costs are equal or about same, go for Canadian instead unless you plan to keep it based in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
The American Flag : Advantages (application form)
1-The Boat is welcome in all the Harbours of the World
2-Consulate & Ambassade Assistance Worldwide
3-Prestige Flag
5-In case of Resale , simply transfer the shares of your US Company to the new buyer
6-Discretion of ownership possible , shares at sight possible.
7-Official CALLSIGN and MMSI Maritime Mobile Service identity arranged for your Boat.
1 - Not really. But most parts yes... but in fact if you are traveling far flung places, better not to have US if you can choose. In the "bad parts" the US flag is the #1 target. If you dont travel such waters, then don't worry about it. I used to work in such nasty places though, and those with American passports only avoided such areas, and those with multiple passports left their American ones at home on such trips.

2 - Yeah right.. this is a big sales pitch. The US Embassies among Western Nations are the least helpful. You are very largely on your own... expect almost no help from them.

3 - Prestige Flag? Yeah right...At best its a vandalism target in some parts of the world. Ive been in a few ports where the US flag is the last to be served out of spite.

4- What happened to 4?

5-7 - As with any company registration in any country.....

Canada has all the benefits of a US flag with none of the drawbacks... thats why Id favour the Canadian flag if all else is equal.

If you are only sailing Caribbean and North America, Europe, US flag is fine. If other parts, you might consider what I've said.
__________________

__________________
PyotrBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 13:45   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: STX and Portland, until refit finished
Boat: 1999 Steel (Tom Collin's design)
Posts: 371
While your doing yoru gyrations, make sure you don't get caught with state sales tax.

I don't think delaware has one, but many states do, and some are rather high.
__________________

__________________
ViribusUnitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2010, 16:36   #33
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post

The vessel is under construction using my US “Delaware LLC” company and I have not to pay any VAT on the work and components because the vessel will be “exported” out of the EU waters and own by a non EU company.
This is 100% legal.
The key being that the vessel is exported (and Vendor / Builder and VAT authorities are happy that it is) - i.e. she won't be permanently turning up in the EU a week later .

But if your plans are worldwide wandering registering in Jersey (Red Ensign / British Registry) via a Jersey Company would do the trick, including for the radio licences. Plus unlike US reg you can't be put in jail by the USCG for not having instructions for using the head stapled to your forehead (and suchlike pettty nonsense ). Pretty straightforward to set up and then maintain, albeit won't be the cheapest deal on the 'net - but you get what you pay for............

Of course any registration you do now does not have to be for life, may come a time when you want to base her somewhere permanent and have to pay import / vat taxes - but by then a lower s/h value will have more than paid for any corporate registration costs up to then with a far lower tax bill
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2010, 02:42   #34
Circumnavigator
 
bonobo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: World Oceans
Boat: Catamaran Prometa, Banana43, 43F
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by PyotrBee View Post
1 - Not really. But most parts yes... but in fact if you are traveling far flung places, better not to have US if you can choose. In the "bad parts" the US flag is the #1 target. If you dont travel such waters, then don't worry about it. I used to work in such nasty places though, and those with American passports only avoided such areas, and those with multiple passports left their American ones at home on such trips.

2 - Yeah right.. this is a big sales pitch. The US Embassies among Western Nations are the least helpful. You are very largely on your own... expect almost no help from them.

3 - Prestige Flag? Yeah right...At best its a vandalism target in some parts of the world. Ive been in a few ports where the US flag is the last to be served out of spite.
I agree with you, but if I say this they call me a American hater and I get insulted...
I agree the Canadian flag is much better. The US flag solution is / was only temporarily until a better solution was found.

At this time, with the info gardened in this tread and another one on the forum, I have enough info to continue my research.

I called the Canadian Registration in Ontario, I can have a survey in Europe by a agency as Veritas or Lloyds, they will accept it. For the rest all other documents are easy to fill in and there should be no problem to document the boat.
As for tax, ( I called the canadian Custom office) if one do not import the vessel, the tax don't need to be paid. Only when bringing the vessel into canada. And if one move into canada to become a resident, there could be ( this was not sure) reduction or exemption the same as on the furniture and personal belongings one import when moving from Belgium to Canada...

Marc
__________________
bonobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2010, 03:16   #35
Circumnavigator
 
bonobo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: World Oceans
Boat: Catamaran Prometa, Banana43, 43F
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The key being that the vessel is exported (and Vendor / Builder and VAT authorities are happy that it is) - i.e. she won't be permanently turning up in the EU a week later .
But if your plans are worldwide wandering registering in Jersey (Red Ensign / British Registry) via a Jersey Company would do the trick,
Thank you for the advice David,

I looked into it, As I did for Gibraltar. Gibraltar seems to be the best if one wands to be safe everywhere. Even in Canada.

This is the deal,
A Gibraltar attorney create a Company for you in the BVI's (You are the only owner / CEO) The vessel belongs to your Company.
They document your vessel in Gibraltar.
You get a Radio license and MMSI number from Gibraltar and the UK.
You can cruse in European waters with a temporarily import license for 18 months straight, after that you need to go to an non EU country for a couple days and you can start over.
The only thing that needs to be careful about is the passport of the Owner of the company / Vessel.
The regulation / law of gibraltar and the EU says that wile in European waters, the vessel can not be used by any EU citizens or resident.
This trick can only be plaid by a non EU passport holder, such as a Canadian.
If the owner has a EU passport and sail into the EU he will have to paid VAT in the country he first arrives in.
The big advantage of Gibraltar is that it is a EU community member but with a separated VAT system, NO vat at all ! Registering in Gibraltar instead of directly in the BVI's has the above advantage as well as a better reputation and will be much more accepted by a EU insurance company.
Cost of this game... Around 2500 euros for the set up of the company, the Documentation, the radio license / MMSI number.
After the first year, around 1500 euros per year for maintaining the company and renewing radio license.

I don't intend to stay in Europe with the vessel but some off the nice places on this planet you definitely wand to go with your boat are European....
Martinique, Guadeloupe, Tahiti, Morea, Bora-Bora, Azores, canary's, Madera,
and much more...

Thank you for all the hinds and advise I received, I will keep an update on this forum.
Marc
__________________
bonobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2010, 15:53   #36
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
Thank you for all the hinds and advise I received, I will keep an update on this forum.
Marc
Please do , folk do Google past on the same subject now and again (albeit seemingly always with at least a slight difference in their position / needs )
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2010, 11:01   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Kitts
Boat: 36' 2001 Fortuna Island Spirit Catamaran
Posts: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
Thank you for the advice David,
You get a Radio license and MMSI number from Gibraltar and the UK.
You can cruse in European waters with a temporarily import license for 18 months straight, after that you need to go to an non EU country for a couple days and you can start over.
Not quite.... Its limited with in a 3 year period and the 18 months only happens if they grant you the extension.... Check closely on this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonobo View Post
Martinique, Guadeloupe, Tahiti, Morea, Bora-Bora, Azores, canary's, Madera,
and much more...
BVI in these places would be just as well accepted. We have BVI and have never had an issues. Insurance is easy too, and US insurance companies usually offer better rates. We are registered in BVI, insured by a US company, and we are citizens and residents of St Kitts and Nevis.

BVI has one advantage in the Caribbean - OECS. As time goes on OECS offers some more benefits to other OECS members. Not a big deal, but its easier to register a boat for business for example if its OECS.

That being said, Gibraltar is very good too. I don't mean to say one is better than the other, just want to clear up a few things about BVI.
__________________

__________________
PyotrBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To Register or License? marina.alex Dollars & Cents 5 05-04-2010 09:03
Buy US Boat, De-Register, Register in Own Country - How Long Can it Stay in America? nickj Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 8 03-02-2010 05:14
Where to Buy and Register? MaDouleur Monohull Sailboats 9 24-03-2008 08:19
Offshore Register ? Christopher Chapman Dollars & Cents 0 08-12-2005 11:07
Where to register a new boat? Chris Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 7 08-05-2004 14:18



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.