Quest for the Perfect Cruiser

[letsgetsailing3]

If I'm considering a boat of a 1973 vintage, what should my biggest fears be?

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If I'm considering a boat of a 1973 vintage, what should my biggest fears be?

a wet core. assuming its fiberglass. get a good survey, or know for sure that its solid fiberglass below the waterline. whats the make and model?

[Krogensailor]

I bought a Krogen 38 OD cutter, for a song. It's just the kind of island boat that I wanted. Solidly built, lots of room. Big galley, Capt cabin, head/stall shower, it's even got a fire place, well a heater really. Get to burn driftwood, charcoal etc. And it draws just a bit over 3' w/ the board up. By the time I hit the water it will cost twice the purchase price and still have 50% value on top. I do all my own work. I hire labor as needed, lots of sanding class's. At least one steady guy who has something of a clue and can follow directions. And I run the operation like its my job. I show up on time and put in the day. Order all the materials weeks in advance of up coming projects, you get the drift. Have a plan! I worked as a general contractor and still have 1500 sq ft shop/tools. If you can do likewise I think its a good deal. Perhaps whats most important is that I like it. If you have to do it on a shoes string or your not really into getting dirty, and your against profanity, don't do it. But if you want the experience of making something alive out of what looked to be dead, have at it.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

I bought a Krogen 38 OD cutter, for a song. It's just the kind of island boat that I wanted. Solidly built, lots of room. Big galley, Capt cabin, head/stall shower, it's even got a fire place, well a heater really. Get to burn driftwood, charcoal etc. And it draws just a bit over 3' w/ the board up. By the time I hit the water it will cost twice the purchase price and still have 50% value on top. I do all my own work. I hire labor as needed, lots of sanding class's. At least one steady guy who has something of a clue and can follow directions. And I run the operation like its my job. I show up on time and put in the day. Order all the materials weeks in advance of up coming projects, you get the drift. Have a plan! I worked as a general contractor and still have 1500 sq ft shop/tools. If you can do likewise I think its a good deal. Perhaps whats most important is that I like it. If you have to do it on a shoes string or your not really into getting dirty, and your against profanity, don't do it. But if you want the experience of making something alive out of what looked to be dead, have at it.

Great attitude, Krogen! I think that you will make a good cruiser when you get her done.

Cheers,

Jim

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Krogensailor

I bought a Krogen 38 OD cutter, for a song. It's just the kind of island boat that I wanted. Solidly built, lots of room. Big galley, Capt cabin, head/stall shower, it's even got a fire place, well a heater really. Get to burn driftwood, charcoal etc. And it draws just a bit over 3' w/ the board up. By the time I hit the water it will cost twice the purchase price and still have 50% value on top. I do all my own work. I hire labor as needed, lots of sanding class's. At least one steady guy who has something of a clue and can follow directions. And I run the operation like its my job. I show up on time and put in the day. Order all the materials weeks in advance of up coming projects, you get the drift. Have a plan! I worked as a general contractor and still have 1500 sq ft shop/tools. If you can do likewise I think its a good deal. Perhaps whats most important is that I like it. If you have to do it on a shoes string or your not really into getting dirty, and your against profanity, don't do it. But if you want the experience of making something alive out of what looked to be dead, have at it.

I'm kind of getting the impression that if you can bear discounting your labor costs to zero, while putting in the labor like you're serious about it, you end up with a very functional cruiser at a reasonable cost.

[snort]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If I'm considering a boat of a 1973 vintage, what should my biggest fears be?

The great thing is that internet probably has a database of answers for you.
If it's not an unusual model, just search "Your boat make and model + typical problems" and you may tap into a forum that deals with that question.

[Travelnik]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If I'm considering a boat of a 1973 vintage, what should my biggest fears be?

Asking your questions on an internet forum?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Travelnik

Asking your questions on an internet forum?

Nah. The trolls don't bother me, and there are lots of good nuggets of information out there.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by snort

The great thing is that internet probably has a database of answers for you.
If it's not an unusual model, just search "Your boat make and model + typical problems" and you may tap into a forum that deals with that question.

I'm figuring that most 40 year old boats have similar problems.

Maybe a better way to phrase the question is "What do you consider a show-stopper when shopping for an older boat?"

[zeehag]

different boats have different deal breakers and dfferent shpw stoppers.

now i thought ye were asking about the perfect cruiser....he would be able to fix my boat and me and .... muuuch more....lol....

oh but ye mean boat---ok...my boat is perfect cruiser.
catalina is perfect cruiser--just ask amnesiaII
beneteau is perfect cruiser--just ask markj
hunter is perfect cruiser--just ask donl
hans christian is perfect cruiserjust ask rebel heart
and so it goes........someone for each marque of boat.
as well as someone to badmouth each marque of boat....

is all up to what is it you need and want in a small craft you will possibly be sailcruising inside and outside of, and what compromises will you make to achieve your goals.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If I'm considering a boat of a 1973 vintage, what should my biggest fears be?

Hi,

IMHO when you say 'fears' you signal that you do not feel comfortable with your level of understanding of what makes a sound boat. If, however, I am wrong about fears, then I think in anything vintage 1973 you will have to face replacing some systems and maybe/possibly some structural elements. Below some of my guesses:

At 40 y.o.:

- even a good marine diesel may have little life left (also for the reason that spares may be spare or prohibitively expensive),
- keelbots and chainplates may require full survey,
- it may be desirable to remove the mast for full inspection of it and its fittings,
- the rudder may require a full survey,
- electrics may require rewiring,
- teak decks (if teak decked) may be well past their prime,
- thruhulls and seacocks me require replacement,
- diesel tank may require replacement,
- part of boat systems (plumbing/rigging/electronics) may require replacement.

I think the above is just a brief list. I would not hesitate to buy a vintage 1973 boat. Some good boats are available vintage 73 or older only.

b.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Hi,

IMHO when you say 'fears' you signal that you do not feel comfortable with your level of understanding of what makes a sound boat. If, however, I am wrong about fears, then I think in anything vintage 1973 you will have to face replacing some systems and maybe/possibly some structural elements. Below some of my guesses:

At 40 y.o.:

- even a good marine diesel may have little life left (also for the reason that spares may be spare or prohibitively expensive),
- keelbots and chainplates may require full survey,
- it may be desirable to remove the mast for full inspection of it and its fittings,
- the rudder may require a full survey,
- electrics may require rewiring,
- teak decks (if teak decked) may be well past their prime,
- thruhulls and seacocks me require replacement,
- diesel tank may require replacement,
- part of boat systems (plumbing/rigging/electronics) may require replacement.

I think the above is just a brief list. I would not hesitate to buy a vintage 1973 boat. Some good boats are available vintage 73 or older only.

b.

Excellent summary of the situation. If you feel confident in your DIY skills and have more time than money AND get a really good deal on seventies era boat then go for it.

I bought a 1984 boat and am doing many of the things on this list. Some needed doing now, some would have needed it soon so am doing them anyway.

One thing I would add to the list is potential problems with a cored deck. If deck fittings were not properly bedded or maintained then you have water into the core and possible rot and delamination.

On my boat, I bought it for 20-25% below what other boats in better condition were selling at. When I'm done I will have 10-15% more in the boat than that. But I will also have new everything except engine which is good for now (cross my fingers).

[laika]

That's a good basic list by barnakiel. If I may, I would just add that dealing with things like degraded teak decks and/or soggy deck core would certainly be examples of things to look out for. But if you get a deal on a boat because some of its essential systems aren't up to snuff, this could actually be a good thing. It will be a lot more work for you and is not likely to pay off financially if you ever go to sell, but you're almost sure to develop a deeper knowledge of the essential systems than you otherwise would.

Of course, if everything has been recently replaced, you'll probably get a better deal leveraging the time and money the PO put into it.

But at least for me, and particularly having been new to boat ownership, the process of really getting to know every system on board has been very beneficial. I've come to find some of the POs additions to the boat thoughtful and some dubious, and have slowly made it my own. YMMV.

[vtsailguy]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I'm only 50, so I don't want to sign up for the "older people" category just yet. I'm on a sliding scale that allows for age as I attain it.

I am 42 and just bought a 1974 Tartan 41, a beautiful IOR era design. It's the same age as my wife

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

to refer to others as "bleach bottles" is about bias as it comes..

At least the pejoratives are being straightened out on this thread; "beach bottles" was cracking me up.

The original use of "bleach bottle" as a pejorative term for sailboats was as a reaction to the Morgan line of boats, a line that has been recommended several times on this thread, ironically. Traditionalists didn't approve of Morgans on an aesthetic level because there wasn't enough external wood, hence the allusion. How could someone ever go to sea without teak decks?

When production stopped on Morgans, the boat snobs of the world suddenly started thinking better of them, or at least turned their attention to disparaging the production lines that survived them.

Randyon3 makes a well-considered point here in terms of bias. There always seem to be some forum members who can't enter into discussions about boats without resorting to terms such as "Dock Queen," (which is particularly sexist), "Bleach Bottles," et cetera. I can't help noticing that this is all about branding, rather than being about such factors as performance, maintenance, accommodation, depreciation, et cetera.