Quest for the Perfect Cruiser

[laika]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

+++

And you will notice how FEW sailors today appreciate this simplicity and hard-to-break'ability.

W32 ? Performance ? What performance ? And here we go.

But what good is 'better' performance if the 'better' performing boat is easier to break?

And they do break: hydralics, electrics, in-mast furlers, gensets and watermakers and ELECTRIC TOILETS and REFRIGERATORS.

Sailing is about sailing, not about fixing things. A W32 may be a bit slower or point a bit lower than a modern, finer boat. And so what. In the long run, one can only get places in a boat that tends to remain in one piece.

We may get there tomorrow, but we WILL.

Hence my first advice to anybody asking is: 'get a simple, strong and safe boat'.

b.

I second where your heads at.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

+++

And you will notice how FEW sailors today appreciate this simplicity and hard-to-break'ability.

W32 ? Performance ? What performance ? And here we go.

But what good is 'better' performance if the 'better' performing boat is easier to break?

And they do break: hydralics, electrics, in-mast furlers, gensets and watermakers and ELECTRIC TOILETS and REFRIGERATORS.

Sailing is about sailing, not about fixing things. A W32 may be a bit slower or point a bit lower than a modern, finer boat. And so what. In the long run, one can only get places in a boat that tends to remain in one piece.

We may get there tomorrow, but we WILL.

Hence my first advice to anybody asking is: 'get a simple, strong and safe boat'.

b.

Àgree!! btw for the Op , you are fine in bahamas with a 6 ft draft ,more is tricky, but with 6 ft no problem, and later if you choose to goo down to the caribbean you will love the deep draft...

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Àgree!! btw for the Op , you are fine in bahamas with a 6 ft draft ,more is tricky, but with 6 ft no problem, and later if you choose to goo down to the caribbean you will love the deep draft...

I've heard that a six foot draft would be quite limiting in the Bahamas, and it would also be quite challenging in many parts of the west coast of Florida.

I hear what you're saying about the Caribbean, but I gotta be realistic.

[Bashleys]

I draft a bit over 5' fully loaded...another nice feature, I can carry a lot of gear w/very little compromise in performance. Did I say a lot...I meant, "A Lot"!

[Boracay]

You don't say how much maintenance is acceptable.
.
Having spent 5 years on my project boat and now living aboard there are several issues that smack me in the eye.

1) I have continual maintenance and expenditure. Between a project boat and an Admiral who wants everything shipshape it never stops.

2) Continued maintenance is a real killer when it comes to get up and go.

3) A big boat is much nicer to live aboard than a smaller one. I've had small and I've had big. Living aboard small is a PITA.
Also you're not mentioning your significant other. You may be able to live aboard a smaller boat but can she?

Your basic choice lies between a small boat in fair condition and a bigger boat in poor condition. Neither is likely to get the Admiral on board.
There has been mention of working longer and building up a bigger kitty and this approach has much to recommend it though the nicer bigger boats seem to cut in at about double your present budget.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I've heard that a six foot draft would be quite limiting in the Bahamas

I would say somewhat limiting but both are subjective terms. With just a little bit of care and a good dinghy (because you may be anchored further out in the harbor) you should be able to cruise every area of the Bahamas: Abacos, Exumas, even cross the banks.

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

and it would also be quite challenging in many parts of the west coast of Florida.

Kind of the same answer. Also depends on exactly where you want to go and what you want to do.

Bottom line, there is no doubt that shallower draft in both of these areas opens up more places to go, closer spots to anchor, requires less attention to navigation and tides. In fact 5' is better that 6', 4' is better than 5' and 3' is even better. I've cruised the Bahamas with all the above and enjoyed every trip and never felt overly restricted, even with 6'.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Bottom line, there is no doubt that shallower draft in both of these areas opens up more places to go, closer spots to anchor, requires less attention to navigation and tides. In fact 5' is better that 6', 4' is better than 5' and 3' is even better. I've cruised the Bahamas with all the above and enjoyed every trip and never felt overly restricted, even with 6'.

That's good to know.

[neilpride]

6ft is fine for bahamas, i do the Bahamas dozen of times , from Gun Cay to Great Inagua, Exumas, The far out islands, the banks, never touch the bottom, it take extreme caution sometimes, in the cuts in Exumas as a example, or with a crew member in the bow reading water color, tides etc,...

In my opinion a 5 ft draft boat need to be sailed like a 6 ft draft boat or 4 ft draft ,, why? as far you are moving in shallow waters the risk increase, 6 ft keel put your mind in warning mode all the time in shallow waters , shallow waters is for catamarans , Just kidding,,,, check explorer charts for bahamas and you found that 6 ft is really good to reach almost all the nice places out there....My opinion...

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Boracay

You don't say how much maintenance is acceptable.
.
Having spent 5 years on my project boat and now living aboard there are several issues that smack me in the eye.

1) I have continual maintenance and expenditure. Between a project boat and an Admiral who wants everything shipshape it never stops.

2) Continued maintenance is a real killer when it comes to get up and go.

I hear this often and it puzzels me... 10 years ago we moved aboard from a simple 2500 square foot home to our 42 foot Beneteau ..
with our home, We would spend one full day, sometimes two doing the maintenance on the house.. from mowing the lawns, trimming the plants, tending to the flower beds, not to mention the house itself.. from washing windows, keeping it painted, touching up the paint on the trim, cleaning the garage and the thats leaving all the up-keep inside to my wife.. polishing the floors, basic cleaning and dusting..
I would go to guess we would log , between us, 20 to 30 hours a week on our house to keep it in top condition..
Now we've lived on our boat and traveled between Alaska and Mexico for the last 10 years and I dont see we've ever put in more that 10 to 15 hours a week keeping the boat in top shape.. and at less expence that the house..
and sure, you'll say that the new sails cost a pretty penny to replace, but so did that new roof on the house..
and the end result, the boat brings me much more injoyment than the house

[Mystic38]

you end up with the boat you end up with.. but any two boats where the difference is simply draft, the shallow draft boat wins out every time.. unless you live in ME.

a 6ft draft boat is significantly limited in LI sound, and makes huge parts of the ICW a nightmare rather than the simple pleasure it should be.. in the Bahamas?..Have I seen 6ft draft boats in the Bahamas?..sure.. out there rolling at anchor, while boats with 4-5ft draft are sitting pretty.. have i seen those boats in every marina i was in?..or at every anchorage?.. nope.they simply cannot get in the same places.

Note that in you (the OP) price range, you are in sight of plenty of keel/centreboard boats... where you lose non of the advantages of shallow draft (and in fact, improve upon by having a stout stubby keel trunk) and lose very little of the advantages of deep keel.. (some occasional slapping of the centreboard if rolling under use)..

bottome line?.. explore all options. i use the centreboard less than 2% of nm sailed, but its there when its needed, and even better, that deep draft is NOT there when its not needed.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Mystic38

in the bahamas, draft is critical to the inch.. it can mean the difference between using a marina or not, a cut, or an entire anchorage.. so you are on target here (with the 4.5ft max)..

have a look at 80's and 90's Bristols and Sabres... many had keel centreboard..

as far as boat age, i dont think there is any difference between 10yo and 40yo.. electronics, sails, running rigging is already on the update list at 10 years so its all in what equipment the boat has, how it is rigged, and general state and condition, layout, storage & tankage.

although i can be called subjective, as its the boat i own..lol, i spent a huge amount of time in research and visits before i ended up with a sabre 38.. to me, its the perfect liveaboard monohull for the east coast and bahamas...excellent layout, looks, sails well, still comfortable, 4ft 3" board up, 8ft board down (almost never need this), great storage, tankage..excellent factory support and owners group.

I did the Bahamas in a boat with 6'5" draft design....plus the waterline was down 5" for load. It did make me nervous a lot, but it was my first Bahamas experience. I seemed to go whereever our friends went. I wasnt anchored out of the pack etc. I bumped hard a few times but all in all it worked. I also traveled the ICW from SC to Ft Lauderdale with that boat.... plowed alot of ICW! Having said that, if Fl and Bahamas are your main goal, I would go with 5' draft or less.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Having said that, if Fl and Bahamas are your main goal, I would go with 5' draft or less.

Key statement.

And it will help reduce the number of boats you have to think about. Much less anxiety.

My friend bought a tall rig Catalina 30 (??) with 6' draft. I helped move it from Tampa Bay to Ft. Myers. What a pain. Even one foot would have made a big difference in three particular instances I can remember.

And the ICW is not being properly maintained either. Don't forget that.

But this is coming from one whose second sailboat was a Westerly Nimrod that with keel and rudder up drew about 10" fully loaded (two up and a weeks worth of supplies). What a gas to make the last two hours of a days sailing tacking turn into 15 min of reaching across a huge sand bar. My next one was a Gemini which can sail that other bar in 3ft.

Having lived in Florida for a looong time I just have to have shallow draft. It means more to me than a lot of other "things" on a boat.

The key here to note is the word "me". Compensating for deep draft in the areas we are talking about is, to me, similar to being in a wheelchair. Lots of places are tougher and some, well, you just can't get there from here.

[letsgetsailing3]

For me, shallow draft is key. I live in Florida, and it makes it mucho easier, so performance might have to suffer accordingly.

[teapot]

I have a caroff albion, i paid £18000 for it and have spent about another £10000 on it with roughly another £7000 to £8000 to spend. Great boat, really roomy and 38ft on deck, i know everyone loves there boats but ...anyway check out this one in Alaska! 1983 Caroff Vulcain V sailboat for sale in Alaska ...oh er...dunno if i done that right but just google caroff yatch for sale in Alaska. It looks in great nick and ready to go. I've just crossed biscay and hit a couple of real blows and the boat loved it...i didn't kept on spilling me tea everywhere but good luck with your search!

[snort]

Sailboatlistings keeps their ads forever. That one is a 5-year old listing.