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Old 24-02-2012, 19:32   #31
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Did anyone see my last post? I went and read the WC right off of the tank. Unless you dispute the densities I used, the tank can hold 24 lbs of propane. If you fill it to 20 lbs that's 80%.

John
Err... 80% of 24 is 19...

We have one poster saying you can only fill to 80% of maximum capacity and another saying to fill to overflow valve stating it gives 90% of maximum capacity
And some confusing maths
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Old 24-02-2012, 19:55   #32
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I just got our tanks(2) refilled. They are small, I did read the tank stamps but I doubt the guy filling them did. It took about three seconds to do the first one. I said is that it? I new it was empty , he just nodded . The second empty tank took quite a bit more, so I nodded. He said you gotta couple bucks in your pocket? I said are you trying to seduce me? He laughed and so did I . I asked what was up, he said No matter what it says , it will only fill to the overfill let's loose. Some tanks let it go way faster than others depending.
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Old 24-02-2012, 20:05   #33
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
It's my understanding that some air space must be maintained for proper operation of the tank. I suppose that is space for the liquid to return to a gas.
Got to have air (actually vapour) space to allow for expansion. If you filled it 100% with liquid, and left it in the sun, the tank would likely rupture. Certainly pressures would exceed design pressure.
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Old 24-02-2012, 20:38   #34
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Re: Propane Class Action

I haven't read any of the links, but I find the discussion interesting. Particularly in regard to fill procedure.

I've been using 20# bottles at the cabin for five years, and on the boat for almost two. I've exchanged bottles many times but also have had them filled at a half dozen locations in three counties in Alabama.

Some have filled until the overflow tripped, some used a scale, and some used a gauge measuring gallons. If there is a legally required method it would be a moot point in my "neck of the woods" as any response to an inquiry about method would be, "that's just how we do it around here".

I've never bothered to inquire, but I usually go for a fill instead of a swap if convenient.
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Old 24-02-2012, 22:49   #35
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Err... 80% of 24 is 19...

We have one poster saying you can only fill to 80% of maximum capacity and another saying to fill to overflow valve stating it gives 90% of maximum capacity
And some confusing maths
I wrote 83%. Propane is a mixture, the density can vary.

In New Zealand
From: http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalog...scylinders.pdf

(ii) LPG
The composition of LPG has varied in the past and may vary again. Therefore, the filling ratio for propane (0.444) is to be used as a standard. The only permitted departure from this is where 100% butane is being filled, in which case the filling ratio for iso-butane (0.508) may be used.


In Canada
From the link I posted earlier: Propane Tank Fill Calculator | Measurement Technology

Propane Weight is the total weight of propane that should be placed in your tank. It is calculated as 42% of the Water Content value.

To fill the tank properly, the dealer must calculate the maximum safe fill from the Water Content (WC) value stamped on the tank. The maximum amount of propane that can be placed in the tank is 42% of the WC value. This ensures adequate room for the propane in the tank to expand safely. The empty (tare) weight of the tank is also stamped on the the collar and allows the dealer to calculate a full or gross tank weight.



My WC of 47.6 times .42 = 19.992 lbs of propane.

John
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Old 25-02-2012, 07:58   #36
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Did anyone see my last post? I went and read the WC right off of the tank. Unless you dispute the densities I used, the tank can hold 24 lbs of propane. If you fill it to 20 lbs that's 80%.

John
Don't get so worked up about it. All I did was post the basic math for people to determine how much propane they can carry in a given container. You seem to have done the research and have read that different countries have different rules regarding fill capacities. So, when in Rome, do as the the Romans.
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Old 25-02-2012, 08:19   #37
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Re: Propane class action

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Went out and looked at my tank. WC is 47.6. Using the densities of 8.35 lbs/1 gallon of water and 4.2 lbs/1 gallon of propane I get 24 pounds of propane. 20/24*100 = 83%


The tables and calculators below give a net weight of 20 lbs of propane in the tank when the operator is using weight to fill the tank.

Propane Tank Fill Calculator | Measurement Technology
Propane Bottle and LP Gas Cylinder Filling
http://www.propane101.com/images/cyl...ling-chart.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
I wrote 83%. Propane is a mixture, the density can vary.

In New Zealand
From: http://www.osh.govt.nz/order/catalog...scylinders.pdf

(ii) LPG
The composition of LPG has varied in the past and may vary again. Therefore, the filling ratio for propane (0.444) is to be used as a standard. The only permitted departure from this is where 100% butane is being filled, in which case the filling ratio for iso-butane (0.508) may be used.


In Canada
From the link I posted earlier: Propane Tank Fill Calculator | Measurement Technology

Propane Weight is the total weight of propane that should be placed in your tank. It is calculated as 42% of the Water Content value.

To fill the tank properly, the dealer must calculate the maximum safe fill from the Water Content (WC) value stamped on the tank. The maximum amount of propane that can be placed in the tank is 42% of the WC value. This ensures adequate room for the propane in the tank to expand safely. The empty (tare) weight of the tank is also stamped on the the collar and allows the dealer to calculate a full or gross tank weight.



My WC of 47.6 times .42 = 19.992 lbs of propane.

John
Thanks John, now this makes sense. So with you WC of 47.6, you can legally fill 19.992 lbs of LPG (ie 42% of WC). The total (but unsafe) capacity of your bottle is 24 lbs so in this instance you can fill to 83.3% of your total LPG capacity. Which you have stated

The bit I challenged was your incorrect maths here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
......... the tank can hold 24 lbs of propane. If you fill it to 20 lbs that's 80%.

John
20/24 is 83.3% not 80%
or another way
80% of 24 is 19, not 20.

Anyway, time to put the kettle on, use up some LPG and have a cuppa or perhaps better
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Old 25-02-2012, 13:31   #38
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Re: Propane Class Action

I would gladly pay for the air gap at the top of the tank..
I take it none of you have been around a burner when raw fluid comes throu the line..
I have and its not pretty..
Another class action suit......Only in america........and when its over, we'll have some new safety device created by some idot and inplamented by congress to save us from ourselves and to take more of our lives away from us..
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Old 25-02-2012, 14:21   #39
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Re: Propane Class Action

I think the point everyone is missing is were they filling them to 80%, or were they filling them to even less than that, just to be cheap asses?
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Old 25-02-2012, 14:24   #40
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Re: Propane Class Action

Density will vary with temperature, so it's probably wrong to label the cylinders by weight, as they are filled according to volume usually.

Here in Aus they are intended to be filled until liquid starts to vent out the vent port. At that time there is still the correct vapour space. Dunno if different countries do it differently though.
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