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Old 23-02-2012, 16:47   #16
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Re: Propane class action

In the good ole daze they use to put the bottles on a scale and they charged you for what ever was put in. Now, they just fill the bottle until it starts coming out the overflow valve, supposedly. Several times I've had to point them in the right direction to get a full bottle.
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Old 23-02-2012, 16:55   #17
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Re: Propane class action

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Now, they just fill the bottle until it starts coming out the overflow valve, supposedly.
That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:06   #18
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Re: Propane class action

Mark, my friend started painting custom cars with Imron when it came out back in the '70s. He never used a respirator, and was still doing this in the late 80s when I caught up with him after the Air Force.

Today, he is disabled with a nervous system that is totally destroyed.

We graduated from high school at the same time and he looks twenty years older than me and probably won't be with us much longer.

I've painted every car I've owned but donned the respirator before opening the can every time.

It's a sad thing, but yes he takes undue risks.

He was also a remarkable pilot and did the first flight of more than a dozen home built aerobatic planes over the years, because the owners were hesitant to do so.
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:06   #19
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Re: Propane class action

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That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
Yes, but you should only pay for what you get. If you show up with 5lbs in your tank and he fills it to the overflow should he be able to charge you for a full tank?
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:16   #20
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Re: Propane class action

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That's how they are supposed to do it. That's rather the definition of overflow valve, isn't it?
Yes, but they cheat and shut it down before it is actually full. The liquid is splashing around from the fill and hitting the over fill hole.

They now also they use a meter which is supposed to be measuring the flow and charge you per gallon. but I've seen those things jump around like it has air pockets running through it. The weight is what will actually determine what's in the bottle. That's why they call them 20#, 30#, 40#, 100# and so on. Every 20# is 4.72 gallons.
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:18   #21
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Re: Propane class action

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Yes, but you should only pay for what you get. If you show up with 5lbs in your tank and he fills it to the overflow should he be able to charge you for a full tank?
They normally have a meter on the pump and should charge you for what you have used.

The answer is not to try and overfill the tank, but to charge honestly. I had to go around a few places before I found one that did not have a ridiculous minimum charge.
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Old 23-02-2012, 17:59   #22
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Re: Propane class action

Does anyone know if temperature has anything to do with the flow? I was once told temperature had more to do with what you get than anything...
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Old 23-02-2012, 18:24   #23
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Re: Propane class action

The "overflow" is properly called a 10% valve. A 20# propane tank is designed to hold 18# (or 20x90%) The 20 comes from the mathematical volume of the tank (often stamped "WC" meaning water capacity. IF the tank were filled with LP, it would in fact contain twenty pounds.

If you get a tank filled without CONSTANT liquid issuing from the 10% valve... you are getting short changed!
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Old 23-02-2012, 18:32   #24
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Re: Propane class action

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Does anyone know if temperature has anything to do with the flow? I was once told temperature had more to do with what you get than anything...
It can! See this link>>> Propane Facts & Comparison Charts
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Old 23-02-2012, 20:11   #25
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by grouchyturtle View Post
But is 20lbs the maximum capacity on these? Or is that what their rated for, and they actually hold more?

Like scuba cylinders for example. 80lbs. means 80lbs. of gas, actually just slightly below. It doesn't mean that's it's maximum capacity. The maximum pressure on any breathing gas cylinder is going to be way beyond it's stamped rating. I find it strange that other types of storage cylinders wouldn't be the same.
Its a world of difference for liquified combustable gas compared to breathing gas. Also DOT gets involved. The consideration is to leave ample volume over the liquid to permit inevitable conditions of sitting in the sun etc. without venting. 10# means 10 pounds net over the tank empty weight. The tank also must contain no non-condensables. That means no nitrogen, oxygen, CO2 etc - only propane. If the tank is emptied, vented, valve changed - it needs to be flushed with propane to be sure all other gasses are out. Basically, don't push legal limits as you could be putting yourself at risk. Even so, treat it like a bomb.
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Old 24-02-2012, 11:59   #26
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Re: Propane Class Action

Went out and looked at my tank. WC is 47.6. Using the densities of 8.35 lbs/1 gallon of water and 4.2 lbs/1 gallon of propane I get 24 pounds of propane. 20/24*100 = 83%


The tables and calculators below give a net weight of 20 lbs of propane in the tank when the operator is using weight to fill the tank.

Propane Tank Fill Calculator | Measurement Technology
Propane Bottle and LP Gas Cylinder Filling
http://www.propane101.com/images/cyl...ling-chart.jpg
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Old 24-02-2012, 16:59   #27
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by grouchyturtle View Post
But is 20lbs the maximum capacity on these? Or is that what their rated for, and they actually hold more?

Like scuba cylinders for example. 80lbs. means 80lbs. of gas, actually just slightly below. It doesn't mean that's it's maximum capacity. The maximum pressure on any breathing gas cylinder is going to be way beyond it's stamped rating. I find it strange that other types of storage cylinders wouldn't be the same.
The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.

More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
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Old 24-02-2012, 17:12   #28
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Re: Propane Class Action

Bear in mind that propane tanks are "LPG" LIQUIFIED propane gas. Not at all the same as SCUBA tanks carrying COMPRESSED air that is nowhere near liquified.

The propane changes phase from gas to liquid under pressure, and needs to be able to change back to gas before it leaves the tank. Different set of constraints from just keeping compressed air in a SCUBA tank.
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Old 24-02-2012, 17:27   #29
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Re: Propane class action

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
The "overflow" is properly called a 10% valve. A 20# propane tank is designed to hold 18# (or 20x90%) The 20 comes from the mathematical volume of the tank (often stamped "WC" meaning water capacity. IF the tank were filled with LP, it would in fact contain twenty pounds.

If you get a tank filled without CONSTANT liquid issuing from the 10% valve... you are getting short changed!
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The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.

More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
OK guys, is it 10% or 20%?
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Old 24-02-2012, 19:15   #30
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Re: Propane class action

Did anyone see my last post? I went and read the WC right off of the tank. Unless you dispute the densities I used, the tank can hold 24 lbs of propane. If you fill it to 20 lbs that's 80%.

John

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The weight stamped is the maximum capacity. The maximum fill capacity for transportation is always 80% of the maximum capacity. The reseller is not permitted to exceed the 80% of the maximum. A 20 lb. container can be filled with up to 16 lbs. of propane.

More accurately, add the tare weight to the 80% figure and that is the total legal weight of the container.
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OK guys, is it 10% or 20%?
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