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View Poll Results: This boat will sink before:
... it leaves Oyster pond 9 69.23%
... Panama 2 15.38%
.... Tuvalu 0 0%
... Great barrier reef 2 15.38%
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Old 05-09-2012, 19:09   #46
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

But i do agree with the quarter of a Million dollars part,,,thats just plain Braggart stupidity,,,but then i am a cheap SOB....hahahahaha
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Old 05-09-2012, 19:10   #47
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Boracay, you missed on big thing that can go wrong.

When you're zooming in, zooming out, crossing different countries and not hanging around, you also LOSE ALL RECOURSE when there is a problem. You can't use legal remedies without flying back halfway around the world, and then the locals often can find ways to make you go home and fly back again. So in practice, if there is a problem now it becomes a terribly expensive and difficult problem.

Now of course, finding an honest mechanic, surveyor, and broker on the far side of an ocean isn't impossible but as we all know, it is damn hard to find them even locally, when you CAN check out their reputations. And of course, whether the vessel and price are reasonable by remote control...

Well, maybe if you're in Larry Ellison's class the brokers are more reliable. Does a quarter million buy you into that club?
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Old 05-09-2012, 20:51   #48
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

What a passionate thread. Welcome to CF... Crazier things have been done and Mr. B is the only one so far that has actually done something similar to Pina's plan.

Anyway rather than dog pile on why you shouldn't here are some risk mitigation thoughts.

- Finding the boat. Someone posted the selection of boats in the proposed pick up location is narrow. Don't limit to one island or locale. Expand the search to get more boat selection even if you start from Florida.

- Ex-charter boat. Will be a vanilla boat maintained to charter standards. Likely worn out sail wardrobe and or insufficient sail wardrobe - no asym, spin, storm sails etc. Engines will be run hard and maybe not in good nick. Electrical power will be minimal. The idea to buy a genset is a shortcut. Plan to tanker fuel for it.

- Surveyor, engine surveyor, broker and insurance companies. Any or all of these can let you down. Mr. B has great ideas about demanding lots of photos and details. But the caveat is no one is really offering a guarantee and the responsibility is still yours. You likely will not get a "failed" boat but it is very possible when you arrive you will find problems that must be fixed delaying your departure and costing you money.

- Sailing skills - only you can assess the skills of you and your crew but you seem to have that covered.

- 9 people in close quarters seems doable but the "life sustaining" needs of 9 people is huge - huge water, food and energy needs. Not to mention the life saving needs - how big is a liferaft that can truly sustain 9 people for a time at sea and where do you store it and can you afford it.

- Money and registration and selling - How to get the money to the broker (you don't carry $250k in a suitcase) needs to be figured out. Registering the boat needs to be figured out but the big one is importing the boat to Australia and selling the boat is expensive. You pay duties on the cost of the boat and the total cost of sailing the boat to Oz. So it's $250k + improvements ~$30k (inlcuding dinks, anchors, watermakers, sails etc) plus cost of journey for 9 people, say $1,000 a month per crew X 6 months or $54k so you pay duties on like a $330-350k boat. Then you pay VAT... Oh and it has to meet all the Aussie boat rules.

You seem like a big boy and you seem like you are committed.

My question to you is why even ask around here about this plan? You really simply asked "What can go wrong." The answer is "everything" but you already knew that.

If you came along looking for validation that this is a great plan, well that's really not how this place seems to work -

You have a very high risk plan with a lot of money at stake. Worst case you lose all your money. Actual worst case is losing your life at sea but that's a bit too dramatic for me. Unless people get washed overboard and lost today's comms make rescue a lot more viable.

Good luck...
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:11   #49
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

After thinking about your plan and reading some of the other posts I'm ready to lay odds on the success of various parts of your plan.

1. Odds of finding a boat in your size and price range. 99%

2. Odds of finding a boat in very good condition in your size and price range. 75%

3. Odds of finding a boat in very good condition in your size and price range and closing a deal within your deadline date. 20%

4. Odds of finding the boat, closing the deal and having all critical systems ready and all new equipment installed and ready to sail halfway around the planet by your deadline date. <5%
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:14   #50
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Well, I'm sure glad that people like the Vikings, Columbus, Magellan, Cook and even Slocum had all their boats checked by a licensed surveyor, and carried proper safety equipment!

What would their lives have been like without their EPIRBs, radar, GPS, and other electronics? What would have happened to them if their life rafts didn't inflate? How would the Coast Guard have rescued them?

After all, isn't adventure, exploration and discovery all about safety?

If they could sail around the unknown world in boats that were crappier, and more unseaworthy than ANYTHING that Pina B will ever find in a used FRP Catamaran from a Charter Fleet, why shouldn't he and his crew be able to do it?

Dude, if this is your dream, then just do it! Don't let any fear mongers hold you back!

Now that I've got my asbestos undies and fireproof suit on...

Let the flaming begin!


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Old 05-09-2012, 21:29   #51
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Again all very good points,,and once again the ball is in your court so they say.
"Skipmac and Ex Calif" have very lucid advice.

But again you are on your own matey!!!!
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:02   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandgilbert99

This is how it works, they will send you the money with a check for an amount greater than what you ask for, requesting that you send the difference before you cash the check, because to release the funds they need that money...
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:24   #53
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

I would NEVER buy a 'used boat' unseen ... EVER!
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:48   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impi
I would NEVER buy a 'used boat' unseen ... EVER!
My current boat was purchased in LA while I chewed fingernails in Nebraska. Lol

You need hands and eyes on the boat you trust. You also need to purchase from trustworthy people

Seller AAAA credit rating (He owns the bank)

I hired a surveyor and a truck driver. Together, they gave me a two thumbs up.

Surveyor missed nothing on a 35 year old William Crealock designed 32' center cockpit, aft cabin ketch with a inboard diesel. Sat on a trailer 3 years. His repair estimate was 100% accurate as the only repair needed, and also accurate for the price to repair. $600

Ketch rigs are more complex than most sailboats and he missed nothing.

Seller dropped the price from $14,000 to $4,000. Including a high dollar six wheel trailer. This was no yard trailer, the trailer empty was worth more than I paid for everything, including the survey, shipping, polishing, repairs.

Uship bid was $1,300. Super low bid. Uship driver figured out where my boat was and was helping the surveyor before I even hired him.

Had I followed your rules you have placed on yourself, someone else would be sailing my Crealock masterpiece, as I work all the time and could never get away that far to look at a boat.

Besides, afraid to fly, and afraid to drive over mountains.

Buyer beware, and buyer be educated.
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:20   #55
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

I think your biggest problem will be 9 people on a 46 foot Catamaran for a couple of months,

Thats very squeezy in any ones language, I hope you are very very very good friends,
As you just cant get off the boat if the **** hits the fan or you suddenly dont like one or another,

Peoples bad habits can get really over the top in constant close proximity and you dont have the space to chill out in or on,

Try putting your 9 people in a room 20 feet by 20 feet for a week, and none of you can leave the room, If you leave the room, your over board, cooking and toilet and shower are all in that 20 by 20 room,

Thats the reality,

Wish you well,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:46   #56
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pina.banana View Post
I'm seeing a lot of good intentions but not that much useful advice I'm afraid.
Actually, you're getting a lot of good advice, you just don't want to hear it. You clearly came here with your mind already made up. All you wanted was for a bunch of people tell you what a great idea this is. Except that it is not, and people are being honest about that.

Buying a boat sight unseen is not the problem. People do that a lot. If you are careful, and take your time, it can work out quite well. It is definitely more risky than buying a boat that you can personally inspect before making the offer, but anyone with any sense already knows that.

Planning to buy a boat sight unseen, and then almost immediately sail off around the world in it, with a large crew of inexperienced people... That's the problem. That's what people are trying to tell you is EXTREMELY risky. That's what may very well end up costing you a lot of money, and could even cost some lives.

But you don't want to hear it. Fine. Go ahead, and good luck to you. In the future, though, if you don't want to hear the answer, it's best not to ask the question in the first place.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:06   #57
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmastern View Post
Well, I'm sure glad that people like the Vikings, Columbus, Magellan, Cook and even Slocum had all their boats checked by a licensed surveyor, and carried proper safety equipment!

What would their lives have been like without their EPIRBs, radar, GPS, and other electronics? What would have happened to them if their life rafts didn't inflate? How would the Coast Guard have rescued them?

After all, isn't adventure, exploration and discovery all about safety?

If they could sail around the unknown world in boats that were crappier, and more unseaworthy than ANYTHING that Pina B will ever find in a used FRP Catamaran from a Charter Fleet, why shouldn't he and his crew be able to do it?

Dude, if this is your dream, then just do it! Don't let any fear mongers hold you back!

Now that I've got my asbestos undies and fireproof suit on...

Let the flaming begin!


I for one and I think most others, do not question at all the overall trip plan, the boat, the budget or anything except the time table and the risks of buying a boat unseen.

If the OP were able to allow more time to buy and prep the boat I would see no more risks or concerns in this voyage than any other.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:22   #58
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

The hardest part will be coordinating 7-9 people to park with $25k (or whatever) in close succession. Good luck selling it in Aus, as prices as somewhat depressed so you might have to wait for a while and go through the dramas of selling her here.

Might be a bit cramped on the boat and too heavy for the 20'ish days in a row at sea out of Panama!

(oops Mr B just read your post. Great minds must think alike)
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:01   #59
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Can you say A pig in a poke ?
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:35   #60
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Re: Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter View Post
Let's put it another way: Shark (broker), meet chum (you).
So much work for so little money .

How do you sell a $100k boat for $250k? - list it for $300k..........on the internet .

By the time OP (and co) realise that have been sold a pig in a poke and get into a position to even try and do something about it the cash will have long gone, and if done "well" will likely be a "he said - she said" scenario if it ever got to court (leaving aside not easy / cheap going legal accross jurisdictions - especially if the defendant(s) no longer in the original one) - reputational damage? $150k compensates a fair bit . Someone causing waves on the internet?, easy enough to dismiss as a lone nutter........and as not dealing with Microsoft a re-branding ain't a biggie anyway.

Of course not everyone is as bent as a nine bob note. but you need only one. and perhaps a couple of Santas little helpers .

......and don't forget the greatest lie ever told........."You can't con an honest man". Of course you can, you just need a different approach and it takes a bit more effort.

Much safer if OP was buying a Mono.........

........
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