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Old 13-08-2017, 10:47   #1
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Question Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Hey guys!

Been a while since I posted at all... lots happened and to summarize; our family is now actively shopping for a larger, more sea worthy vessel (we sold the Catalina already) and are likely going to live aboard full time within the next 18 months. We are Oregon residents, but have been traveling around this summer in Canada while the house in OR is rented / VRBO'd. I'm seriously considering a cruising fitted 1981 Farr 38 for sale in Toronto.


I have zero intention of bringing the Farr 38 to OR in the near future. Can I still register it there and avoid the sales tax etc. since my driver's license, residency and most of our claimed income / tax returns are OR? Our plan for the 1st year or so is to spend a little time on the Great Lakes where the boat is now, drive it down the canal then stick to Canadian/USA east coast and ICW, finally ending up in the Keys, Caribbean etc. We may eventually establish residency in MT (have a lot of family there) if we're not coming back to OR anytime soon. Main reason is just to avoid the incredibly high OR state income tax. I have a small side business and I may incorporate it in MT as well. How does this purchase work though if I don't even plan on having the boat leave Canada right away? It will need some updating for offshore and new bottom etc. which I'd rather get done here - it's cheaper!
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Old 23-08-2017, 17:33   #2
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Surprised no one answered this! Update / general answer:
So, in the end we decided against the farr 38. It's just too small for having 2 kids on board. I thought we could make it work. Wife wasn't too keen. Answers to my own questions:


Yes, you can register your boat in your home state and avoid the sales tax. But, a stay in any sales tax state (state depending) of a given period of time (usually 60 days) will technically require you to register it there. That state will want the difference of what sales tax you paid in the state you purchased it in / originally registered it to. The difference being $0 in Oregon to whatever state it's currently in. Also, there are some odd rules for states like Washington (and maybe others?) where if I import it to that state, but do not register it there, I can no longer return to that state for 6 months after my initial stay, otherwise it's considered a "use tax" scenario and the sales tax has to be paid as well as potential slap on the wrist fines.


Yes, I could leave my boat in the Toronto yard and do work on it there for 90 days at which point I'd have to register it in Canada.


There are a few other boats we are looking at in Canada on the Great Lakes. So, all good to know. Especially leaning towards the Valiant 40s. Man, we love those boats! Too bad about the blisters, though some seem to randomly just not have any even though they are blister years. The search continues...
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Old 23-08-2017, 17:53   #3
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

FWIW the province of Ontario charges sales tax on used boats. It's not clear to me whether they do this based on the residence of the seller, the residence of the buyer, or the location of the boat. But if you license or register the boat in Canada you may attract their attention.
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Old 23-08-2017, 18:22   #4
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

My current boat I bought in Canada. Initially built in the US. I winter in Oregon. My total cost to import was $12.50.
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Old 23-08-2017, 19:05   #5
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Double check the PST/HST/GST applicable taxes in Ontario. What has been said above about 60-90 day grace period does apply to most US states but with Ontario having a similar tax scheme to British Columbia (where I have experience buying and selling boats) the BC government can and will tax the sale of a new or used boat (and just about everything else for that matter) brokered or private that takes place within the province or is used in any means within the province (so no transiting out of province if the sale takes place within the province). You can circumvent this by having the sale take place outside the provincial jurisdiction ie in US waters where those state taxes and conditions apply; usually much more lenient than Canadian provinces. This can be done by making delivery to a specified port in the offer. Just a note that as the purchaser you cannot be on board during the delivery.
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Old 23-08-2017, 19:27   #6
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by maplemale View Post
Surprised no one answered this! Update / general answer:
So, in the end we decided against the farr 38. It's just too small for having 2 kids on board. I thought we could make it work. Wife wasn't too keen. Answers to my own questions:


Yes, you can register your boat in your home state and avoid the sales tax. But, a stay in any sales tax state (state depending) of a given period of time (usually 60 days) will technically require you to register it there. That state will want the difference of what sales tax you paid in the state you purchased it in / originally registered it to. The difference being $0 in Oregon to whatever state it's currently in. Also, there are some odd rules for states like Washington (and maybe others?) where if I import it to that state, but do not register it there, I can no longer return to that state for 6 months after my initial stay, otherwise it's considered a "use tax" scenario and the sales tax has to be paid as well as potential slap on the wrist fines.


Yes, I could leave my boat in the Toronto yard and do work on it there for 90 days at which point I'd have to register it in Canada.


There are a few other boats we are looking at in Canada on the Great Lakes. So, all good to know. Especially leaning towards the Valiant 40s. Man, we love those boats! Too bad about the blisters, though some seem to randomly just not have any even though they are blister years. The search continues...
Someone gave you bad advice. You cannot register it in Canada unless you are a Canadian Citizen (or a corporation). You cannot license it in Canada without a Canadian mailing address.

Canadian Terminology is a little different than US. Our "Registration" is very much like your "Documentation". Your "State Registration' is very much like our "Licensed" boats. Your "Documented" is federal, Your "Registered" is State while both our Registered and Licensed are Federal.
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Old 23-08-2017, 21:53   #7
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

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Originally Posted by rbk View Post
Double check the PST/HST/GST applicable taxes in Ontario. What has been said above about 60-90 day grace period does apply to most US states but with Ontario having a similar tax scheme to British Columbia (where I have experience buying and selling boats) the BC government can and will tax the sale of a new or used boat (and just about everything else for that matter) brokered or private that takes place within the province or is used in any means within the province (so no transiting out of province if the sale takes place within the province). You can circumvent this by having the sale take place outside the provincial jurisdiction ie in US waters where those state taxes and conditions apply; usually much more lenient than Canadian provinces. This can be done by making delivery to a specified port in the offer. Just a note that as the purchaser you cannot be on board during the delivery.

Ah... A Canadian friend with a yacht told me this literally "I cannot be on the boat" but didn't expand upon why. This makes perfect sense now, thanks for clarifying!


Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Someone gave you bad advice. You cannot register it in Canada unless you are a Canadian Citizen (or a corporation). You cannot license it in Canada without a Canadian mailing address.

Canadian Terminology is a little different than US. Our "Registration" is very much like your "Documentation". Your "State Registration' is very much like our "Licensed" boats. Your "Documented" is federal, Your "Registered" is State while both our Registered and Licensed are Federal.


Good info... my wife is actually a Canadian citizen and we have a mailing address in Canada where we reside occasionally. But, again this whole thing would be something I'd avoid (leaving it there for much time) since i'd rather just not pay a large tax. The only reason we were interested in leaving the boat there is in order to have some major work done while in CA.
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Old 23-08-2017, 21:56   #8
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by maplemale View Post
Good info... my wife is actually a Canadian citizen and we have a mailing address in Canada where we reside occasionally. But, again this whole thing would be something I'd avoid (leaving it there for much time) since i'd rather just not pay a large tax. The only reason we were interested in leaving the boat there is in order to have some major work done while in CA.
In August 2012, the Canadian government began enforcing a law requiring foreigners to pay an import tax if they leave their boats in Canada after October 31 (considered end of season). Americans may not leave their U.S. registered boat in Canada year-round without paying duty and tax (up to 13% depending on the country of manufacture). A E-99 permit may allow American boats to remain in a Canadian marina during the winter to get work done. For more information, call the marina division at 519-257-6457.

Buy it in Toronto, close the deal in Wilson NY or wherever, State register it in the state of your choice, return vessel to Toronto, call the number above and get to work.
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Old 23-08-2017, 22:41   #9
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Re: Oregon Resident buying in Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
In August 2012, the Canadian government began enforcing a law requiring foreigners to pay an import tax if they leave their boats in Canada after October 31 (considered end of season). Americans may not leave their U.S. registered boat in Canada year-round without paying duty and tax (up to 13% depending on the country of manufacture). A E-99 permit may allow American boats to remain in a Canadian marina during the winter to get work done. For more information, call the marina division at 519-257-6457.

Buy it in Toronto, close the deal in Wilson NY or wherever, State register it in the state of your choice, return vessel to Toronto, call the number above and get to work.
X2 ^
If you do this get on the licensing/registration asap to avoid getting held up at borders while also avoiding potential local state sales tax or permits for out of state/country vessels (30-60-90 days etc) that may apply.
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