Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2011, 16:42   #1
Registered User
 
simonmd's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sant Carles, S Spain
Boat: 30ft Catalac 900 "Rubessa"
Posts: 876
Opinions on Survey Required, Please

I've recived this survey regarding a vessel i'm interested in and would be very grateful for any ones 2nd opinions.

I've removed all references to the boat and vendor's identity to protect their privacy.

Now, she's an oldish boat at a reasonably cheap price so you can expect a survey to have many reccomendations. What I'd like to know is if there is anything in there that I should be particularly worried about, etc.

Obviously, any advise given will be treated just as that. I take full responsibility overall.
Attached Files
File Type: doc survey.doc (74.5 KB, 354 views)
__________________

__________________
Previous owner of a 1994 Catalac 900, now sadly SOLD
simonmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 17:08   #2
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,570
Images: 14
The only thing I can see missing and its a minor point, is the surveyor didn't check the connectivity between bracket, prop shaft and anode, but you could do that with a multimeter.

Otherwise you have a detailed survey report. If you know how to use glass fibre and epoxy resin I think the observations could be corrected easily enough. Even if you had to pay a yard it shouldn't be the end of the world.

The good news is the newish engines, sails and rigging, the last owner has spent money on her.

There are lots of little jobs, gas hoses, sea cocks, but you will find that with any yacht of her age, indeed we had to change gas hoses and toilet pipes etc.

So should you buy her, that's what your asking. She is an old yacht, needs some GRP work and lots of little jobs which should be reflected in the price. The good news is there won't be tears the first time you hit a jetty a little too hard, whilst if you had $100k of new Bavaria ........

If she offers you the interior volume you are a looking for and you are happy not to have the latest design of yacht (to keep up with the neighbours) I suspect she could be a nice yacht for the med.

If you decide to proceed having worn out Google learning everything you can about them, use the faults detected by the surveyor to really negotiate the price down, especially at this time of year when its cold and wet and marina bills still need to be paid by the owner.

Would I buy her if the price was a bargain, YES

Pete.
__________________

__________________
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 17:15   #3
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,217
Images: 2
pirate

Just walk away Renee'..... and don't look back that way no more...
I stopped at second page....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 17:34   #4
Registered User
 
simonmd's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sant Carles, S Spain
Boat: 30ft Catalac 900 "Rubessa"
Posts: 876
Lol, two completely different opinions already but any input is welcome.

I'm not used to buying old GRP boats and the major bulk of the 'advisiorys' seem to be related to minor stress cracking, etc. I guess what i'm really asking is, is it normal for something that's 30 years+ to have this sort of report and is there anything in there that would make her unecconomical? The seller wants £15k for her which bearing in mind the decent engines, upgraded hot water system and decent sails, etc. seems resonable. What do you think?
__________________
Previous owner of a 1994 Catalac 900, now sadly SOLD
simonmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 17:41   #5
Registered User
 
Mike Vogdes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Jersey Shore
Boat: Watkins 29'
Posts: 212
Lots of stress cracking, bad GRP soundings in various locations, and delamination at various bulkheads and transom would certainly get my attention. Looks like you are going to need a good fiberglass man and a complete paint job after he's done. I suppose its how you define cheap...
Maybe negotiate a new price or maybe keep looking. This boat is definitely gonna need some work.
__________________
Mike Vogdes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 18:19   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 679
It's a remarkably detailed and apparently competent survey with clear recommendations - you could be pretty confident that he's covered it all.

I don't know that I'd buy it if you intend paying someone to work on it. But if you'd enjoy that - and some nuts like me would - then go for it. I couldn't see much that seemed difficult - just be methodical, work your way through the recommendations, and you could well pick up some knowledge along the way. And once you've completed the final job, you'd know the boat well and have reason for confidence in it.

But about the price I'd have no idea; guess you'd do due diligence on the current market and take it from there.
__________________
Wand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 19:03   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PA
Boat: 1983 Bristol 35.5 - "CAPRIOLE" Hull #123
Posts: 30
I'm sorry, but my impression is that this survey has a lot of words, but not much help. But it really depends on what the buyer is looking for. From reading, this is a major project boat. Major omissions, in my HO, is that very few of the "systems" were actually tested (just observed) and there was not a sea trial. Boats are for use in the water, which has an uncompromising judgement on "things that appear" ok. Missing a sea trial is reason enough to find another boat, unless you're looking for an "on the hard trophy".
__________________
StormSailer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 19:45   #8
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
I would not recommend you buy this boat until you consult with your insurance provider. Insurance companies will often require you to complete recommended repairs in order to qualify for coverage. In this case, the recommended repairs could cost as much or more than the boat.

The surveyor's recommendation for "recommissioning" are going to be a major expense. If you show this survey to a local boatyard, watch how quickly their eyes glaze over at the thought of doing all this work. It may actually cost more to recommission this boat than it initially did to build it.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 19:54   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonmd View Post
I've recived this survey regarding a vessel i'm interested in and would be very grateful for any ones 2nd opinions.

I've removed all references to the boat and vendor's identity to protect their privacy.

Now, she's an oldish boat at a reasonably cheap price so you can expect a survey to have many reccomendations. What I'd like to know is if there is anything in there that I should be particularly worried about, etc.

Obviously, any advise given will be treated just as that. I take full responsibility overall.
When buying any boat start with a good hull. If it doesn't have good bones the money you spend may wind up going into that proverbial hole in the water.
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 20:47   #10
Registered User
 
snort's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Trunk (boot) of my car
Boat: Tinker Traveller...a dozen feet of bluewater awesomeness!
Posts: 1,034
Quote:
An electronic moisture detection meter was used to make moisture absorption comparisons between the topsides and underwater surfaces. The readings varied from low to high, but overall the indications were that the underwater surfaces have absorbed some moisture. Due to the weather conditions and some water in the bilges, these readings may not be completely reliable.
Well, that's not very helpful, but he did say that soundings with his hammer indicated delamination, and that's never a good sign. I'd tally up all the recommended fixes and discount the total from the owner's asking price. I'm assuming the owner is selling with an asking price for a 'good' quality boat.


I think the survey information can be summed up with this line:
Quote:
The weather was fine with heavy showers.

For me, delamination on deck or hull means it's time to look at another boat.
__________________
snort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 21:01   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
surveyors

Does it seem that each surveyor tends to focus more on some things than others? This one seems to be busy with the hammer but maybe more unwilling than most to operate any equipment. I wondered about the "skin fittings are of metal and plastic", which seemed rather vague; I'd have liked to have known more about seacock type and materials.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea http://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 21:58   #12
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,777
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
COULDNT OPEN LINKY, BUT FROM WHAT THE GOOD FOLKS HERE ARE SAYING, I WOULD GO FOR A DIFFERENT BOAT, MESELF.......
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 22:24   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 679
Zee, the majority is sometimes right but may also be a herd

IMHO I reckon some of you are pretty tough on the poor old surveyor. For example, I don't know how he's supposed to tell what sort of plastic a thru hull is made from while keeping it in situ and unmarked. And most people don't need a surveyor to tell the difference between a bronze and stainless seacock, or to find if the simple rigging systems etc work.

And sea trials? The boat has been around long enough for there to be plenty of info out there about its general performance, and any final sea trial is surely for the buyer to undertake, not a surveyor.

And as for the hammer, I'd always have more confidence in a bloke with a hammer and a good ear than one relying on a moisture metre.

And re the engine, surveyors usually aren't diesel mechanics and can't be expected to put their reputation on the line (and also open themselves up to litigation) by commenting in other than general terms on the power plant. It's best just do the standard tests yourself and, if in doubt, get a mechanic's input. Just the same as buying a car.

Anyway, whether it's a good deal depends on the price (and, as I said earlier, on how much of the work you'd be doing yourself). I did a currency conversion and, for that money, a cat of that size and condition would be a very good pickup; but the market may be very different over there.
__________________
Wand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 23:41   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: southcoast ontario ca
Boat: Georgian 23 Whiskeyjack
Posts: 296
Images: 1
The survey is a year old. Since it was surveyed, nothing has gotten better, and anything marginal has certainly gotten worse, so the list of reccommendations will have gotten longer, not shorter. Unless is it well and truly priced CHEAP, there are better boats out there. I like Catalacs, but this one sounds like she has been ridden hard and put away wet.
__________________
bljones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2011, 00:29   #15
Registered User
 
simonmd's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sant Carles, S Spain
Boat: 30ft Catalac 900 "Rubessa"
Posts: 876
A great deal of input there, many thanks guys. I've clicked all your 'thanks' buttons!

A bit more info for you, the seller emailed me back when I raised some concern over the survey, he said,

"The recommend work in the survey shocked me too, however, the guy is a professional surveyor and notes absolutely everything he sees."
As you'd hope, ahem!

"The cracking on the decks, for example, is minor and is nothing we worried about. The insurance company read the report and only cared about the bulkhead and required us to get that fixed before the journey."
So at least some work has been done then.

The boat was originaly in the UK and after that survey, was used extensively in 2010 travelling through Europe via the French canals, ending up in Greece.

There are half a dozen similar boats for sale in Europe at the moment, prices ranging from £20k to £33k. This one is priced at £15k and you never know I may be able to get it down more so does still seem possible.

As for some of the comments about the surveyor, I've found that comments like 'seemed in working order but not tested' are common and not to be worried about. As 'At Sea' rightly said, they're there to test the structure of the boat on the whole, not the mechanical systems. I suppose it's like expecting a house surveyor to check if the oven works in the kitchen! Another point to note is that it was done on the hard so items like the engines could not be run anyway. I've certainly not heard of a surveyor taking part in a sea trail either.

So, I think i'll make him a lower offer. If he takes it, great, i've got a nice reserve to spend on her. If not then i'll walk away.
__________________

__________________
Previous owner of a 1994 Catalac 900, now sadly SOLD
simonmd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lifelines Required ? Ruf361 Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 32 14-07-2016 20:59
Hello from the UK - Help on the Forum Required, Please Leopard Star Meets & Greets 4 30-08-2010 22:54
A license should be required... GreatKetch Construction, Maintenance & Refit 20 27-11-2007 05:31
Info on Garmin 498 C Sounder. Opinions? Transome mounted Transducer? Opinions? chuck711 Marine Electronics 0 14-01-2007 17:06
Required reading coyote General Sailing Forum 13 02-03-2006 20:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.