Opinions on Survey Required, Please

[Wand]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Sea Trials. Yes, the surveyor will take part (mine did).

Hell I'm sure he'd go for a ride - if y' paid him. And if they're anything like surveyers over here, they love a free piss-up too

I agree though that a sea trial is important - the buyer is entitled to one and he'd be a mug not to take it.

But you don't need to pay a surveyor to test the systems and see if it suits - that's something you do yourself and, if you want some real expert advice, take a mate.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by At sea

Hell I'm sure he'd go for a ride - if y' paid him. And if they're anything like surveyers over here, they love a free piss-up too

I agree though that a sea trial is important - the buyer is entitled to one and he'd be a mug not to take it.

But you don't need to pay a surveyor to test the systems and see if it suits - that's something you do yourself and, if you want some real expert advice, take a mate.

Really, this is when the point of having the surveyor along is to document what you are going to negotiate (poor sail condition, winch sticks, etc).

[Wand]

Originally Posted by boatman61

That 'Good Trip' involves crossing Europe through nice calm canals and then harbour hopping down to Greece... not exactly testing conditions for an Optimist dinghy...

Ouch. Got me there boatman. But having had a look at a few of that breed on the web, I reckon, as Old Jersey says above, that is what the boat would be ideally suited for. (I note that some have crossed oceans, but you can do that in anything if you're mad enough).

But the OP says that he's selling a motor boat to "fund the sailing dream". I'd doubt that dream, at this stage anyway, involves a trip around the Horn. So crusty old salts like your good self who've done it all through mountainous seas and howling storms standing on the foredeck may be mirthful but...

It's stating the obvious I guess but there are boats made for every conceivable water activity. Best I reckon to get the boat which suits what you want to use it for now and, when your interests change, sell and get another which best suits your new quest.

[Laidback]

Who was the survey done for? The seller or the buyer ?
The amount of stress cracks found almost everywhere - the point that the first owner completed the boat BUT not to builders/designers spec. And the fact that this catamaran's bridge deck height above the sea guarantees pounding in a sea way which in turn provides a lot of stress - both on the crew and the boat !
Give it a miss !

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Laidback

Who was the survey done for? The seller or the buyer ?
The amount of stress cracks found almost everywhere - the point that the first owner completed the boat BUT not to builders/designers spec. And the fact that this catamaran's bridge deck height above the sea guarantees pounding in a sea way which in turn provides a lot of stress - both on the crew and the boat !
Give it a miss !

I'd lay London to a brick that the "stress cracks" the surveyer mentions is just gelcoat crazing. And that is entirely harmless; just cosmetic. If it was anything more, he'd have said they were structurally significant, and he says specifically otherwise.

The bulkhead in question not completed to the original specs was a serious issue but was fixed a year ago.

As for the bridgedeck height comment, that's a 'horses for courses' issue, as mentioned in my post above.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by At sea

Ouch. Got me there boatman. But having had a look at a few of that breed on the web, I reckon, as Old Jersey says above, that is what the boat would be ideally suited for. (I note that some have crossed oceans, but you can do that in anything if you're mad enough).

But the OP says that he's selling a motor boat to "fund the sailing dream". I'd doubt that dream, at this stage anyway, involves a trip around the Horn. So crusty old salts like your good self who've done it all through mountainous seas and howling storms standing on the foredeck may be mirthful but...

It's stating the obvious I guess but there are boats made for every conceivable water activity. Best I reckon to get the boat which suits what you want to use it for now and, when your interests change, sell and get another which best suits your new quest.

Sorry Atsea... having delivered one of these last year after it had failed the insurance survey and had been turned down as a delivery by various YM skippers I figure I know just a tad about these boats...
Oh... my delivery was around the outside.. E coast UK, Bscay, Gib, Sicily, Corinth and on to Pendik in the Marmara, Turkey.
Yes they are strong boats but this was a home completion boat, its hulls been badly stressed by over tensioned rigging and they are prone to slamming badly in anything fwd of 90deg of the beam... it won't take the punishment
If he wants a Houseboat I'd say go for it... but the OP wants to travel...
Lets put it this way... in a previous thread the OP said he may ask me to help deliver a buy if near me... if its this boat I'd respectfully decline...
And I'm as death or glory a delivery skipper as you can get... but I do like the odds at least 30/70 on my getting across... 50/50's for the pussy cats...

[Laidback]

BTW, if the Catalac 9 has a LWL of 25ft then the formula for a minimum BD clearance would be only 1'7" - However, with a cruising payload probably much less.

What is a "Stress" Crack ? Is it not a crack caused by stressing a component?
IE.. flexing that results in stress cracking. Gelcoat crazing does not come into the same category, surely a surveyor will use terms that reflect an obvious condition.

http://www.dsm.com/nl_NL/html/drs/tr...oting_2007.htm

[Laidback]

Wonder what this picture of the front end of a Catalac 9M tells us about heading into rough seas ?
The modern ocean going design has vertical bows to counter rocking horse action, tramps with open mesh to allow the water to pass through.
Having waves right in your face is not everyone's cup of tea.
Just one cubic metre of sea water weighs around 1,000 kg (2200 lbs)

[callmecrazy]

Its funny how people are focusing on the stress cracks an the overall design of the boat, when the report clearly states that at least THREE BULKHEADS are subject to "damage" and surrounding Hull delamination... i don't get it? where is there even a question about this?

am i missing something?

It's a broken boat...move on.

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Its funny how people are focusing on the stress cracks an the overall design of the boat, when the report clearly states that at least THREE BULKHEADS are subject to "damage" and surrounding Hull delamination... i don't get it? where is there even a question about this?

am i missing something?

It's a broken boat...move on.

In fact Stress Cracks on any multihull are important diagnostic indicators of problems such as bulkhead damage and lamination. A surveyor who specializes in multihull survey will pay special attention to where the bridge-deck joins the hulls in the case of a catamaran, and similar attention to where the deck joins the floats to the center in trimarans. Stress cracks in the above areas will immediately signal the need to carry out internal
examination of the hulls - especially where bulkheads are fixed to the hull.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Laidback

In fact Stress Cracks on any multihull are important diagnostic indicators of problems such as bulkhead damage and lamination. A surveyor who specializes in multihull survey will pay special attention to where the bridge-deck joins the hulls in the case of a catamaran, and similar attention to where the deck joins the floats to the center in trimarans. Stress cracks in the above areas will immediately signal the need to carry out internal
examination of the hulls - especially where bulkheads are fixed to the hull.

right, I understand that... but who cares about the stress cracks and all the "indicators" when there is clear damage to all three of the bulkheads?

Stress cracks are minor at best, and indicators of something bad at worse... but the "something bad" has already been established on this boat. All of the bulkheads are damaged and delaminating... I don't mean to yell but c'mon!.... this boat is f'd up. Why even bother with the details?

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

right, I understand that... but who cares about the stress cracks and all the "indicators" when there is clear damage to all three of the bulkheads?

Stress cracks are minor at best, and indicators of something bad at worse... but the "something bad" has already been established on this boat. All of the bulkheads are damaged and delaminating... I don't mean to yell but c'mon!.... this boat is f'd up. Why even bother with the details?

Unfortunately "the devil is in the detail" Shouting at the devil may not help understanding the contents of a report that neglects the detail.
Could not find the statement in the report that " All of the bulkheads are damaged and delaminating"

[laswack]

Simonmd,

This survey, was not done for you, correct ?
You own a 57ft boat, that I am sure you had surveyed prior to purchase.

This boat, seems to me is a project, and that is without a sea trial, any talk of the rig and sails - I did not the distortion at the mast step that should be investigated, before recomissioning.
Sails inspected as stored.... not opened out.

If you are serious about this boat, and equally concerned about the your money that you will be spending I recommend a lot more first hand investigation by you, if making a truely informed decision is your objective.

Just my 2 cents

Good luck, and enjoy the ride.

[simonmd]

Correct, it was done last year for the present owner when he was buying it. Yes, my boat had a recent survey which I saw before I got it, wes very good too!

Again, some great input from a wide range of knowlege, Many Thanks!

I think the overall picture is 'buy it very cheap if you can and be prepared for a lot of work'. Overall then, I think i'll give it a miss, the fact that it's not been built to full factory specs is the worst thing for me, just a bit too suspect.

[Seahunter]

Cowboys have a saying too; no hoof, no horse.