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Old 30-10-2011, 16:04   #31
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

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Originally Posted by Dhillen View Post
Thorbad,
Having spent significant time in Europe (including Malta) sailing, motorcycling, etc. I can tell you EVERYTHING costs more there than in the US. You also have a 20% VAT to consider when purchasing a boat. What worries me is not that you don't know much about boats - that's fine and we all start there - but that you don't really know what you want the boat for. One of the rules of thumb in buying a boat is buy the boat for the trip. If you want to have dinner on board with friends at the marina AND take her offshore to Greece, it really is two different things. Any boat that can take you to Greece safely you can have dinner on with friends. But for 30K euro it will be tight and not so comfortable for dining. If entertaining is really where you think you will spend your time aboard then you should NOT be looking at an offshore vessel in that price range.
I grew up in California and 98% of the thousands of boats in the marinas there never leave the dock. Owners are in love with the idea of owning a boat and only spend time on it drinking beer, talking about all the places they will never go. Again, nothing wrong with that, whatever floats your boat, as we say in the US. But real usage should determine which kind of boat you should buy.
Also, beware of brokers. They are supposed to be friendly and their interests are not aligned with you, the buyer. They represent the seller and their job is to push you to buy the most expensive boat they are flogging.
I would slow down, read more and spend time talking to other local sailors. Try and crew in local races. I remember there is a very active yacht scene in Malta. You will make a better decision for you with fewer regrets once you know what you really want a boat for.
Good luck.
Dhillen
Great post and thank you for "teaching" me more about the ropes .

I really would not want to stay at the marina a lot. I mean I am buying a boat because the other choice (a car) is not that fun in Malta. We have no race tracks and you cannot really go out much safely with one. To go abroad its really expensive so you only can get much use. . .

Right now I am going around seeing different types of boats between 30-35 feet. As far as the broker is concerned he wants to show me as much as he can so I can get a good idea. I also have a good idea now of what I want and what I do not want in a boat.

The last boat I saw I did kinda fall in love with. . .though I am making sure that it is not infatuation and taking things slow . . .I am considering going for a second look. It is a Hallberg-Rassy 31 "monsun" from 1979. It fits the budget. Its LOADED with extras (ex owners crossed atlantic TWICE). Has a FULL service record for everything (receipts, service manuals, stamps etc) and has all electronics upgraded. I really have a thing for classical and antique things (especially in cars) so it really ticked almost all my boxes.

In the meantime I am also doing the yachtmaster course on a part time basis at a local school. Private individual courses are wayyy too expensive so to get the whole package @ Eur400 is really good.

What experiences do you have with those type of boats? I read plenty of positive reviews but it won't hurt to be sure
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Old 30-10-2011, 16:23   #32
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Thorbad,
Hallberg makes some great boats and I believe the Monsun was their first and they made close to a thousand of them. If you want a boat that can sail to Greece - and around the world - then this is a great choice. She is a proven design from one of the most reputable manufacturers. Also, when it comes time to "upgrade" you will find a ready market for resale. This is not so for custom boats or boats from small manufacturers. And there should be a large community of happy Monsun owners around the globe, particularly in Europe, I would imagine.
What condition is she in? A boat of that "vintage" will be showing her age. Your job now is to make sure those wrinkles are cosmetic and there is nothing structurally wrong with her. I recommend reading Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat," for showing you what to look for. Most obviously is hull condition - does she have a blistering problem? All boats get blisters so don't freak out but you want a boat that has one or two, not one or two thousand....
The other big ticket item will be the engine and its history. Rigging will likely need replacing, etc. So figure these real costs into your budget.
But, yes, fine choice!
Cheers.
Dhillen
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Old 30-10-2011, 16:52   #33
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Rigging was changed in 2005

General condition of the boat is. . .well surprisingly good! It just has a ton of dust as it has been laying on the dry for TWO years.

Engine got upgraded with a new Volvo Penta variant (forgot exact specs but it does look new and has a full service history).

Hull looks fine (Im no surveryor). The only thing that "caught" my eye is that at the bottom part of the keel, midpointwise in the length, there is just a few rust seeping through. I am not sure if this is a really bad thing. The boatyard said that its nothing and that I should just take it off and fill it up with "Hard Metal" or some similar compound. The wooden trim on the outside with the copper sheet is also still "intact". On the web I saw few monsuns that still have this feature (or I just have no idea how to search) but the wood underneath cracked a bit since it was on the dry for too much.

Winches are freshly serviced and it has two extra ones in the cockpit. Sails are new (since 2006) plus another set from 2001. Has also whisker pole as part of the rigging and spinnaker gear.

Apart from that hull looks great!! It does not have blemishes or flat spots (apart from that rust underneath. . just a 5-10cm circle maybe. . ). It doesn't look like it has any blisters (went around it abt 5times before I climbed inside). Just a ton of dust.

Its owners seemed to have taken a great deal of care in it. Unfortunately during the last haul out (circa 2-3years ago) just before they were going to make it back to the carribean, the husband of the couple that owned it died. The wife was reluctant to ever set sail again since and put it on sale recently. I will have to go again and get some pics for meself (and to show ya all) as the pics on the site I found it on do not do it any justice.

I was told there should be a blog on it somewhere. Its called "Ioanora" (or something similar, its Tahitian?). No luck finding it yet. Wife is some ex sueprmodel. Any idea where I can find such blogs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhillen View Post
Thorbad,
Hallberg makes some great boats and I believe the Monsun was their first and they made close to a thousand of them. If you want a boat that can sail to Greece - and around the world - then this is a great choice. She is a proven design from one of the most reputable manufacturers. Also, when it comes time to "upgrade" you will find a ready market for resale. This is not so for custom boats or boats from small manufacturers. And there should be a large community of happy Monsun owners around the globe, particularly in Europe, I would imagine.
What condition is she in? A boat of that "vintage" will be showing her age. Your job now is to make sure those wrinkles are cosmetic and there is nothing structurally wrong with her. I recommend reading Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat," for showing you what to look for. Most obviously is hull condition - does she have a blistering problem? All boats get blisters so don't freak out but you want a boat that has one or two, not one or two thousand....
The other big ticket item will be the engine and its history. Rigging will likely need replacing, etc. So figure these real costs into your budget.
But, yes, fine choice!
Cheers.
Dhillen
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Old 30-10-2011, 19:46   #34
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Sounds good.
If you are serious about a purchase you must get a survey. Find a surveyor on your own, not the one the broker recommends. Make sure he is certified and has references. I always go with the surveyor to do the survey so I can see if he finds anything. It also teaches me more about the boat. Tell the prospective surveyor you want to do the same. 90% of them are fine with this (as long as you don't get in the way) but if they say no, then I would get someone else.
Put up some pictures of the boat - and the supermodel!
Cheers.
Dhillen
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Old 30-10-2011, 21:47   #35
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Not sure if you have been refered to H-R in Sweden, on this link http://www.hallberg-rassy.com/ you go to previous models, where you will find the Monsun. I bought a H-R 33 Mistral in July and am now back in Florida getting her ready to go sailing. I am very happy with my Mistral from 1971, hope you will be too with the Monsun.
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Old 30-10-2011, 22:52   #36
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

KIRK 36 (AMEL) sailboat on sailboatdata.com
1976 AMEL Kirk Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 31-10-2011, 03:16   #37
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Indeed Selene I did quite a bit of research on the HR. . .they seem really fine boats! Also heard of Swan and Oyster from HR fans and. . .O.o can one say really expensive jewels? But then again they are jewels. I do not think one can compare them to the Benetau and other production boats right?


Also I did go to see a Moody 33. Compared to the Monsun it is really cramped inside. And its comparing a 33ft boat with a 31ft boat so its really impressive!!!

Now I guess apart from the long path to making an offer and surveys and whatnot. . . .is to secure "funding". Gotta save up faster
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Old 31-10-2011, 07:27   #38
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Hi Thorbad,
I do not have experience with prices on boats in Europe. But I can tell you that here in the US you can make very good deals, provided you got the time to wait for it. I got my Mistral33 way under the budget price you are mentioning, and bought it from the owner directly, not involving a brooker. You might find that theese boats prob have been on the market for some time, and that there already is a survey report available, you could then go through that and check if the essential recommandations have been met/done or not. With regard to facilities, make sure that the sails are "functional", that the boat is equipped with an autohelm, a good tackle (anchor&rope/chain), a workable head (either compost or with holdingtank with functioning y-walve), well dimensioned battery banks, and a galley with stove and a fresh water system. Do not worry too much about the age, boats in your yearrange were build solid. If the boat also have a GPS and a chartplotter, you will be good to go. One final advise is, that you go look at the boat when raining, to see if it takes in water fro deck and other above waterline constructions. Good luck!!!
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Old 31-10-2011, 14:35   #39
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Hah its a good time to go see the boat in the rain as its been pouring lately on and off for a week xD

Well there is this guy that is checking for me if a Gib'Sea 33 is for sale. Apart from that not much more right now. . .But I doubt it can surpass the quality and style of the HR >.>

HALLBERG RASSY 31 MONSUN

That is the link of the HR The pics are not at all grand because it really gave me a VERY wrong first impression. Still gotta go give it a look again. Have no idea if I can just go to the boatyard to look >.>
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Old 31-10-2011, 23:21   #40
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Looks good, and it look like its got all the essential equipment.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:24   #41
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

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Looks good, and it look like its got all the essential equipment.
Good to know

Unfortunately that site does not even have half of its total inventory. Its wayyyyy too much to list and even the broker has little idea of what does it have exactly xD. It has fire extinguishers, lifejackets and liferafts which where bought in 2010. Paint, varnish, loads of rope, a dinghy, sails, power chord for anywhere in the world. . . The quarter berth is full of things and I think half the real volume of the boat is full xD.

Time to work overtime galore now
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:25   #42
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Hallberg Rassy is a quality boat but they all had-- and still have-- teak decks. When the teak deck starts to leak (and almost all of them do, eventually) the repairs will cost more than you are paying for the boat. You really need an experienced surveyor or marine engineer to investigate this issue.
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Old 01-11-2011, 13:32   #43
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

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Hallberg Rassy is a quality boat but they all had-- and still have-- teak decks. When the teak deck starts to leak (and almost all of them do, eventually) the repairs will cost more than you are paying for the boat. You really need an experienced surveyor or marine engineer to investigate this issue.

Thats what I was worried about to be honest (just got Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintanence Manual).

But: "Treadmaster non-slip deck"

And I did remember this from when I went to see the boat. It wasnt the usual teak I saw on other old boats. Its this rubbery material and it really works as a non slip surface (it was raining that day).
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Old 01-11-2011, 13:33   #44
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat



That is EXACTLY how it looks like on the HR
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Old 01-11-2011, 14:00   #45
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Re: Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

Well if the teak decks have already been replaced, that's good, so long as the replacement was properly done.
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