Need Advice from Experienced Seagoers Regarding New Boat

[Thorbad]

Oh and btw what do you guys think about the two boats I linked?

[Hydra]

Thorbad,
Before looking for boats, I suggest you make a list of those features you want to have, those you would like to have and those you don't want. Every boat is a compromise, not the same for everybody.

You also have to decide how long you could wait, having the boat in a yard, before going sailing. Some inexpensive boats need refurbishing before sailing.

About the "Cap Nord", I smiled when I saw a ST1000 Autopilot (new, 2000): an 11 years old autopilot isn't new anymore, usually.

Alain

[mrohr]

Many ways to keep costs down:accept lower cosmetics get handy,go small,avoid marinas(anchor out),avoid lotsa gizmos,do your own maintenance,become an expert seaman ,get lotsa experience,be realistic as to what you are gonna do with your boat, get a boat that is suitable for local waters,get handy,seek out the advice of the people living as you want to,read,read read about the cruisers that went years back and avoid the glossy magazine articles,think camping not yachting,get physically fit,did I say get handy?
Get my drift? It's still going to cost more than you hoped ,but you can realize your dreams at a small fraction of most others and you just may go farther too!,

[Matt sachs]

Originally Posted by Svsilvergirl

kinda like asking how much a girlfriend costs , and what kind of girlfriend should I get.......

exactly......

[perchance]

Originally Posted by Svsilvergirl

kinda like asking how much a girlfriend costs , and what kind of girlfriend should I get.......

The girlfriend is relatively cheap. On the other hand, the divorce when the wife finds out......

[Thorbad]

Originally Posted by Hydra

Thorbad,
Before looking for boats, I suggest you make a list of those features you want to have, those you would like to have and those you don't want. Every boat is a compromise, not the same for everybody.

You also have to decide how long you could wait, having the boat in a yard, before going sailing. Some inexpensive boats need refurbishing before sailing.

About the "Cap Nord", I smiled when I saw a ST1000 Autopilot (new, 2000): an 11 years old autopilot isn't new anymore, usually.

Alain

Good idea, though to be honest I am not even sure of specifically what I want. I do not want anything fancy or hi-tech. I just want something comfortable and that just works if you get what I mean. Nothing that needs a lot of maintanence or that needs a ton of training to work with.

I just want a boat that I can have fun with, relax, cruise. Heck even have a meal with friends on it if I do not feel like/have the time to sail out. I also would love not to change it within a few years if possible. . .so it has to be able to be strong enough both for coastal cruises around Malta, Gozo and Comino together with the ability of cruising around the Med (eg Malta to Greece or Scicily).

Im not that fussy tbh as long as it works, is strong and robustly built and easy to use.

If it helps you. . . I am an avid fan of classic cars lol especially British built Fords, American muscle cars and british cars in particular . I just love the way they work. . .everything is simple and easy to learn/fix. (just finished restoring a 1968 Mk 1 Escort GT).

You mention the ST1000 Autopilot. Unfortunately I have no idea about gizmo's or electronics and google only gives you so much info. You guys can recon I can find a list of "must-haves" on this forum? Also is there an advantage/disadvantag to Tiller stearing?

Hope this helps more . Thank you for the feedback guys keep it coming. You're awesome over here ^^

[Boracay]

Your price range is up to E30,000 and your yearly budget E7,500. Can you tell us your buying area?

Would your budget stretch to more than E40k?

[Thorbad]

Originally Posted by Boracay

Your price range is up to E30,000 and your yearly budget E7,500. Can you tell us your buying area?

Would your budget stretch to more than E40k?

Well as for buying area I guess the Med/EU area if VAT is already paid and its cheap enough/worthwhile. Just more time saving up actual capital

It could stretch to more than E40k if maintenance is not also higher. At E7,500 a year it is already a bit overdone I think with a yrly income of E18k

[Thorbad]

Well today I have an informative meeting with a local broker so I get more information about costs and I get a better idea of what's involved so I guess it will either make it or break it.

[Selene]

Do not have much experience with the Med. but been sailing from Genoa to Rome, leaves me with the impression that finding anchorages and free moorings (bow or stern to, with lines or anchor out) is pretty easy. I have not found any US-type (ball) moorings yet. For a (semi)permanent dock have a look at this site, they run a introduction 7 month special offer http://portoturisticomarinadiragusa....sualizza/id/17
With a €30k/7.5k budget you should be ok under "normal" circumstances. Buy GRP, they are easier to maintain, be carefull not to buy too expensive, and get as much equipment as you can with the buy. Good luck with the project!!

[Thorbad]

Many thanks fur that marina suggestion!


Just a little update:

Today I met with a local broker who spent 2hrs in a face to face meeting explaining to me most of the things (and costs) that are approximately involved with boats!

He also didn't really advise considering the CAP NORD as it is made of wood + has a full length keel. This makes the boat heavier and apart from being a bit different to maintain is not ideal for beginners as its heavier to steer. He told me that for starters I rather get something easier so that I won't risk any burnout.

I explained to him in detail what I would wish and he is going to help look out for boats. As far as costs concerned here my budgeting estimate was correct (somehow lol). €5,000 a year is a good figure while €7,500 is only high end marinas (like Grand Harbour/Portomaso) and when I let EVERYTHING up to the boatyards.

Now he is going to show me a couple of boats. Not to interest me in buying but just so I get the feel of what is available since its better if I see/touch stuff so I get a better idea of what is needed.

Are all brokers this helpful/friendly? >.< Because usually car dealers I have had experience with all try to **** you over in the fastest way possible so that they make money :P


Thanks all for the advice!

Regards

-Thorbad

[JRM]

Originally Posted by Thorbad

Good idea, though to be honest I am not even sure of specifically what I want. I do not want anything fancy or hi-tech. I just want something comfortable and that just works if you get what I mean. Nothing that needs a lot of maintanence or that needs a ton of training to work with.

I just want a boat that I can have fun with, relax, cruise. Heck even have a meal with friends on it if I do not feel like/have the time to sail out. I also would love not to change it within a few years if possible. . .so it has to be able to be strong enough both for coastal cruises around Malta, Gozo and Comino together with the ability of cruising around the Med (eg Malta to Greece or Scicily).

I think that not knowing what you want, and not changing boats in a few years, is almost mutually exclusive. I thought I knew what I wanted, and we bought a starter boat that we knew wasn't it. Even then, in the last three years, what I thought I wanted then and what I realize I want now are completely different. I can look back at early posts here and cringe .

It's like that line "There are known unknowns, and unknown unknowns." I didn't know what I didn't know (still don't). Even with the starter boat concept, there are so many things I've taken away that I'll do differently next time that I hadn't even thought to think of.

Not to say that you can't be happy with a first boat. Some folks have their heart set on a particular boat, or fall in lust with a particular one while looking. Nothing wrong with that, and if you don't love your boat (and even if you do) there are time's you'll hate it.

It's the little things that really get me. Like the placement of the thru-hull for the macerator. It's only used away from shore, but it's stuck in a place that it's almost impossible to get to when sailing. And of course, the one time I didn't hit the pump out station when I got back in is followed by the time I forgot and didn't realize I forgot to stop there on the way out until halfway across the channel, requiring advanced boat yoga to turn the fricken' valve. Nothing about advice on whether to get a fin keel, skegged rudder, or full keel would ever clue me in on the little things like thru-hull placement.

So I'd suggest looking with an eye toward a first step rather than an eye toward finality, if it's at all feasible. Although, given where the market is heading, any boat you purchase today may be worth significantly less in a couple of years, so take this advice as worth what it cost you .

JRM

[Sunhine]

Well depends on what your boating needs are, Could I suggest you hire a couple of different vessels or go sailing one day to find out what you really want in a aboat, There is a broad range of options available from tinnis to tankers & everthings else in between. Some glossy magizanes may stir your interest and flatten your wallet but at least you would get a understanding of what is entailed. it comes down to what your interest is in boating. Ie fishing, sailing cruising, commerical fishing, family boat etc. Marina port change quite a lot and trailer vessel in out of the salt water in the case of non metal boats. Some ports will compeat for your dollar and services provided. Your right there is some much too chose from it endless. Happy Boating !

Originally Posted by Thorbad

Hi all


So basically I am looking into the idea of finally owning my own boat instead of just going to sail once in a blue moon when friends visit.

My main problem right now, before even considering a boat, is that I have zero idea on what other costs are involved (mainly marina fees/maintanance/etc) when one has such a shiny toy to play with

I'd ask my friend if they also owned theirs but they just charter one from were they live and just sail around in the Mediterranean. . .


So I am mostly interested in getting an idea of roughly how much upkeep does a boat cost. Also what would be good starter boats? I was thinking of a 9-11m max boat. Useage - Weekends, summer, whenever I have the chance =p (hurray for long summer leave).

PS: I am from Malta so I think mostly EU or local ppl might be able to help >.<

Also budget that I am thinking about roughly is around Eur30,000 to buy the boat and right now calculating on Eur5,000 a year (just random figure as I have no idea what insurance and maintanance cost!)

Thank you in advance

-Thorbad

[Selene]

Liability insurance, budget with 200-250$/year.

[Dhillen]

Thorbad,
Having spent significant time in Europe (including Malta) sailing, motorcycling, etc. I can tell you EVERYTHING costs more there than in the US. You also have a 20% VAT to consider when purchasing a boat. What worries me is not that you don't know much about boats - that's fine and we all start there - but that you don't really know what you want the boat for. One of the rules of thumb in buying a boat is buy the boat for the trip. If you want to have dinner on board with friends at the marina AND take her offshore to Greece, it really is two different things. Any boat that can take you to Greece safely you can have dinner on with friends. But for 30K euro it will be tight and not so comfortable for dining. If entertaining is really where you think you will spend your time aboard then you should NOT be looking at an offshore vessel in that price range.
I grew up in California and 98% of the thousands of boats in the marinas there never leave the dock. Owners are in love with the idea of owning a boat and only spend time on it drinking beer, talking about all the places they will never go. Again, nothing wrong with that, whatever floats your boat, as we say in the US. But real usage should determine which kind of boat you should buy.
Also, beware of brokers. They are supposed to be friendly and their interests are not aligned with you, the buyer. They represent the seller and their job is to push you to buy the most expensive boat they are flogging.
I would slow down, read more and spend time talking to other local sailors. Try and crew in local races. I remember there is a very active yacht scene in Malta. You will make a better decision for you with fewer regrets once you know what you really want a boat for.
Good luck.
Dhillen