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Old 30-03-2015, 20:33   #1
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Marina Charging What They Want?

Good evening everybody, I recently purchased an Alberg 37 that is currently on the hard in Whitby, Ontario. I've only ever been a trailer sailor, never dealt with marinas before. The marina fees were clearly listed online, stating seasonal winter storage is up May 1st. The previous owner had paid the winter storage in full. It is my responsability to pay to launch the boat.

I asked if I could be given the date they would launch the boat, as I would like to be there, (I have to drive 5 hours to the marina so some advance notice would be great) and move the boat immediately to Ottawa so as not to incur any additional fees at that expensive marina. The lady in the office told me it could be more than a month after winter storage is up before they put me in the water. And I would be responsable for paying additional storage fees while I wait. It will cost me around 400 dollars a month.

Is this allowed? It's up to their discretion when they want to let me leave the yard. Fine, I understand the beginning of the season is busy. I'm patient. I don't agree with paying extra on top of an existing storage contract simply because they run behind schedule. Has anybody else experienced this before? It seems really unfair for a municipal run marina to grab money this way.

I don't want to complain to the marina at the risk of pissing them off and charging me even more money. I tried to find case law online or any helpful information regarding storage laws, but could find nothing related to this. Thanks.
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Old 30-03-2015, 21:16   #2
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

dont understand why they are telling you when.. any time I've hauled out, I tell them when I want it done.. they get paid for doing what you want... If it were me, I'd go set in their office until they put it in the water..
The only thing that might hold them up is if your boat is blocked by another that they are working on and thats not your concern..
Dont be a puss about how they handle your boat.............
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Old 30-03-2015, 21:19   #3
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Well they have over a hundred boats in the yard. I understand that takes time, and that many people already booked their launch dates before I got around to it. It is at the end of a row, certainly not blocked in by other boats.
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Old 30-03-2015, 23:52   #4
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Sounds like you are late booking a launch date. If this conversation happened in the last week or so, I can believe they are fully booked for the next month. Starting in April the Great Lakes marinas start a steady process of launching and if the weather turns snotty, which it often does, they can quickly fall behind, so they are unlikely to find a slot for you in the next month or so.


I would be willing to bet the storage contract includes fees if you aren't launched by a certain date, so case law isn't likely to help.


Your best bet is to go hat in hand and ask very nicely what options they can give you. While I understand your desire to be there (we always plan on it). If they have the flexibility to get the boat in the water when they have a bit of free time in their schedule, that might open up options.
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Old 31-03-2015, 08:51   #5
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Some of this may depend on the relationship you have with the marina. A regular customer who has a slip in the marina may get a break, someone who is leaving the marina maybe not.

The $400 a month sounds a bit steep for Lake Ontario. RCR in Buffalo, NY charges $100 month for storage. Kathleen Marina in Sodus Pt, NY charges $150, and Oswego Marina, Oswego, NY charges $100.

The best advice would be to go to the marina and talk to them in person. Build a relationship, even though it will a short one.
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Old 31-03-2015, 08:54   #6
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

I'm not sure they can effectively hold your boat, basically, for ransom.

Somehow ... it seems wrong for the marina to benefit(at your cost), specifically, for not being able to provide a timely service ... especially once you've actually requested the service, which, when delivered, will also end your obligation to pay for storage.

Generally, in the area where I'm at Lake Erie's western basin, if your still on the hard, simply because they cannot deliver their service, they don't charge for that time and seriously, why should they?
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Old 31-03-2015, 08:59   #7
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

They charge $11.41 a foot per month for summer storage. I did talk to the manager in person, and I am trying to be as friendly as possible. Which is why I'm asking how others deal with this situation before I stress her out by asking about it. I realize being polite may be the difference between getting a break or not.

To me this is like taking your car into the mechanics, asking to get the brakes changed. They quote 4 hours, at 50 dollars an hour. The car sits on the lift all day, and they can't get around to it. They were busy working on another car. They finally fix it at noon the following day, and charge you for 12 hours of shop time.

I really don't like to see companies, let alone a township take advantage of people and just charge extra. Winter storage ends on May 1st, and regardless of when I ask to have the boat in the water, I should not be charged extra storage fees because it takes them longer than their schedule to put it in the water. No matter what move they make, they get to charge more money. Why not postpone everybody's launch. They can squeeze an extra month of storage time out of everybody, and still charge a full summer season for the year round boaters there.
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Old 31-03-2015, 09:29   #8
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Hi, I'm just up the lake in Kingston. I've been to Whitby YC and Whitby marina. I even spent a long weekend in the travel lift, when it broke down launching the boat I was crewing on, just before quitting time.

Here on Lake Ontario, I've never heard of paying winter storage fees on the hard by the month. It is always "for the winter", which is from when they haul you out till they launch you again in the spring. Perhaps you are asking the wrong question. I would suggest you ask some other boaters at the same marina. Maybe check the previous contract, which I hope says a fee for winter storage, not a monthly fee.

I haul at Portsmouth Harbour, run (very poorly) by the city of Kingston. I pay something like $26.54 + HST per foot for WINTER storage.

Your other option, if the mast is down, is to have a marine hauler move the boat by truck. It costs less than you think, and you could have your boat in ottawa, at your club/marina, right away, and not have to deal with Whitby Marina any more. I would guess it would cost less than $1000, but of course there are some criteria that need to be met....like the cradle is suitable, and up on blocks, and the mast is down, etc.

Anyway, If you are looking for experienced, helpful crew, I'd consider helping you get your boat (by water) from Whitby to Kingston when you launch. Its a pleasant trip (usually), and not too long depending on if you go the inside or outside route. If its before the May 24 weekend, you could likely stay at confed basin for free, since they don't open until then. You might also want to find out when the Murray canal opens, if you are going that way.

Marinas do have too much control to overcharge all of us. But its a necessary evil of boating on Lake Ontario. Please don't let this spoil the excitement of your new boat. The Alberg 37 is a great boat...you could go anywhere.
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Old 31-03-2015, 09:41   #9
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Maybe go over their heads and directly to the Town of Whitby?
They have a contact page on their web site.
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:08   #10
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Unfortunately, in the words of one of the great philosophers of the past fifty years, "Pogo"; "We have met the enemy and he is us". Most of us boaters (particularly sailors) are very environmentally concious. This is, however, a two edged sword. "Environmentalists" are the main reason many businesses have become less subject to free market forces and more like quasi, if not outright monopolies, no longer subject to the economic and service forces of free enterprise competition. How many times have we seen plans announced for a new marina only to be immediately denounced as a "threat to the environment". Am I saying that anyone should be able to build a new marina anywhere, any time; absolutely not! I am saying that we return to "balance".

The last time I checked The Maunufacturer's Instructions, He told us: "God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” (Genesis 1:28). That's good enough for me.

So, next time someone wants to build something that will increase competition (whether a new marina or a WalMart Supercenter), think twice about automatically opposing it. We need more competition in this world, not less. Thank God for Defender Marine!!!
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:25   #11
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post

Here on Lake Ontario, I've never heard of paying winter storage fees on the hard by the month. It is always "for the winter", which is from when they haul you out till they launch you again in the spring. Perhaps you are asking the wrong question. I would suggest you ask some other boaters at the same marina. Maybe check the previous contract, which I hope says a fee for winter storage, not a monthly fee.
The prices I quoted for Katlynn and Oswego were for summer storage on the hard. The RCR price was for winter storage. Some marinas, like RCR, are also brokerages. The monthly rate works out well for a boat being sold.

The rate Whitby is charging you sounds about right for a slip, not on the hard. One factor to consider is what the marina uses the storage area for during the season. If it is parking for the marina or some other public use, the high fee will serve as a deterrent to leaving your boat there during the summer season.

Municipal marinas sometimes just don't get it. They are more beholden to the city council than the marina tenants. I know of a marina that charges a daily transient rate to slip holders who want to use their slip prior to the official beginning of the season. If the docks are in and ready to used on May 14 and the season doesn't start until May 15 you have to pay a transient fee if you launch on May 14.
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:28   #12
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

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Originally Posted by fishwhisperer View Post
They charge $11.41 a foot per month for summer storage. I did talk to the manager in person, and I am trying to be as friendly as possible. Which is why I'm asking how others deal with this situation before I stress her out by asking about it. I realize being polite may be the difference between getting a break or not.

To me this is like taking your car into the mechanics, asking to get the brakes changed. They quote 4 hours, at 50 dollars an hour. The car sits on the lift all day, and they can't get around to it. They were busy working on another car. They finally fix it at noon the following day, and charge you for 12 hours of shop time.

I really don't like to see companies, let alone a township take advantage of people and just charge extra. Winter storage ends on May 1st, and regardless of when I ask to have the boat in the water, I should not be charged extra storage fees because it takes them longer than their schedule to put it in the water. No matter what move they make, they get to charge more money. Why not postpone everybody's launch. They can squeeze an extra month of storage time out of everybody, and still charge a full summer season for the year round boaters there.
I believe your analogy is incorrect.

You dropped off the car but were unsure if you wanted the brakes done. They said there would be a per day fee to store the car then you forgot to confirm you wanted the brakes done. When you did confirm, they had other projects ahead of you, so it took a few more days and you get hit up for the fees.

Your situation is a bit messy because of the change in ownership but otherwise, it's a failure of the owner to schedule a launch in a timely manner that is triggering the extra storage fees. I guarantee this is all laid out in the contract.

This isn't the big bad marina. They wrote a contact and the owner agreed to it.

Side note: This isn't about winter storage fees but summer storage fees.
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:30   #13
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

They can't both charge you for storage and refuse to launch you. If that were the case, they could refuse to launch everyone (Travel lift is broken/Lift bay is blocked, etc) and keep charging them for the monthly storage fee.

Their logistics is not your concern. Other boats in your way is also not your problem. If it were me, I would give them 3 clear choices:

1) Grant me a launch date prior to the end of winter storage

2) Grant me a launch date AFTER the end of winter storage (At their request not yours) and NOT charge summer storage fees in the yard.

3) Speak with my attorney

Not being able to launch until after the cut-off date is not uncommon. I've never actually seen anyone get invoiced if the delay was as a result of the yard/marina.
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:30   #14
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

The rates are listed online. I was told the exact amount per month, by the manager. They charge summer land storage rates when they are behind schedule on launches. Yes I can see them charging a customer extra for something the customer requests. But charging a customer extra for a service that they do not want, are not responsible for, and should not be held liable for, is different. The boat is not in the parking lot. It is in the storage yard, at the end of a row of boats, very accessible.

https://icreate4.esolutionsgroup.ca/...itby/rates.asp
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Old 31-03-2015, 10:31   #15
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Re: Marina Charging What They Want?

I note that your last post said something like "township" ... if guberment employees there are like they are in Ohio, non-cookie cutter situations confuse them ... that's probably a big part of the problem and/or misunderstanding.
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