Marigot Rose - Beneteau 43 - Disaster Survey

[engine1218]

Originally Posted by MarigotRose

This is my fourth survey now - and it feels like I'm a magnet for the very worst of the market
How many surveys have other cruisers had before they found their feasible/ideal purchase?

Survey #2 is next week. Fingers crossed.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by MarigotRose

How many surveys have other cruisers had before they found their feasible/ideal purchase?

I looked at...and I mean actually boarded and inspected, about 40 boats before I made an offer. Had the survey done, renegotiated based on that. The survey turned up a few things regarding systems that were non functional which I could not test during my own inspection. Simply deducted replacement/installation costs from the agreed on purchase price.

There was one gotcha that the survey did not turn up. There was some oscillation in the drive shaft which the surveyor attributed to engine alignment, based on pronouncing the cutlass bearing good. Turned out that it was a bent shaft and prop strut. And when I redid the bottom I uncovered a repair to the rudder skeg; the glass work was solid but they had used vinylester to fair and it was deteriorating. Clearly there had been a collision of some sort. I suspect, given the boat's cruising history, that it was a lobster pot. All told about $4k to repair aside from my own labor. That part of the boat is perfect now.

Point is, no boat is perfect, and sometimes you buy one warts and all because you believe you have a good idea of what the warts are and can negotiate price accordingly.

Yes, there are perfect boats out there, perfectly maintained and upgraded by loving owners, who are completely forthcoming about the boat and it's condition. But they are unicorns, for the most part.

There are so many horror stories about uneducated buyers ending up with a real turkey that some buyers end up having unrealistic expectations about finding the "perfect" boat. You can, but it could prove and expensive and time consuming process. If that works for you, go for it, but the alternative is to buy a less than perfect boat and make it perfect. That's the difference between "perfect" and feasible, as you put it.

[Divevac]

Living on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes, we have travelled to Florida on vacation on 4 occasions in 2 years with 2 days set aside each trip to examine specific boats scouted on larger websites or through brokerages.

About six months ago, I compiled a list of screening questions that I send to the selling broker asking that the owner provide the answers:

"We are experienced sailors and motivated cash buyers looking for a blue water capable yacht for a ten year sojourn through the Med and back via the Caribbean. Beyond the listing information provided, in order to further determine the suitability of this boat it would be helpful to have the owner's answers to a few basic questions:


1. How was the boat used? Where has it been?
2. Why are you selling?
3. How long have you owned the boat?
4. What are upgrades you would do if you were not selling?

5. Has there EVER been any issues of osmosis?

6. What do you like best about the boat? Least?

7. Do you have a mechanical log?

8. Diesel hours and maintenance?

9. Water or fuel Tank replacements?

10. Groundings or collisions?
11. Survey available form the past ten years?"

In short, I feel these questions have been very useful. If no reply (75%), I move on assuming the worst about either boat condition or the broker's motivation. Any reply is carefully considered along with the listing information to determine our level of interest in assessing the boat in person.

We've searched relentlessly online for 2.5 years and travelled to have a hard look at 20+ boats in the south and another 8-10 in and around the Great Lakes before using this screening tool. Since using the tool, we have screened in three boats from 10 replies that we are planning to assess in person in late March.

In addition, our buyer's broker has frequently netted very useful information that we would not otherwise be privy to.

Good luck!

[basssears]

We just finished going through this process and I can sympathize with you for sure. The costs add up, and we were also never local to the boats we were interested in.

Expensive surveys that catch real problems that you didn't know existed (we had one of these) I consider the best money I could ever spend. Expensive surveys that catch obvious problems we should have seen ourselves (we had one of these too) suck.

My recommendation would be to get a old of the book Inspecting the Aging Sailboat and use it to make a comprehensive checklist and do your own pre survey... I have a checklist started if you want I can send to you... I found using the checklist kept me ON TASK and not wandering off to check out the latest nifty electronics or the cocktail table in the cockpit.

We "surveyed" 4 boats ourselves, picked the one that did the best from our point of view then had a formal survey which came through quite nicely... yes, in the end we still got lucky with a good boat (which still cost us plenty the second we owned it) but we at least tried to stack the deck in our favor.

-- Bass

[RickG]

Like Divevac, we pre-screened boats with a list of questions to the selling broker. One great resource for us was the owners' group of each type we looked at. Posting questions on the groups also lead to some owners volunteering their surveys of similar vessels. Given that, I was able to come up with specific questions for each type.

The attitude of the current owner makes a big difference. For the boat we eventually succeeded in buying the owner was active in the owners' group. I contacted him and we arranged for a walkthrough. The owner was knowledgeable and showed us the improvements he had made. His wife was very house proud and walked my lady through amenities while I dug into mechanicals. Their broker was present as well.

We did have a buyer broker and went with Zimmerman Marine's Yacht Purchase Support Program. They act as broker as well as arranging survey and provide quotes for survey remediation to be used in negotiation. They credit a portion of their commission for yard work post-sale. The survey went well and I am having work done in their yard now for a spring launch.

No surprises so far on this 2003 Beneteau 423. We had the exhaust elbow pulled for inspection and decided to replace it due to age. Most of what we are working has to do with this being a 14 year old boat.

Cheers, RickG

[rosatte]

go to the great lakes area and buy ur boat..no hurricanes no salt water and on the hard for winter..worth the traveling

[hamburking]

Avoid the brokers. Their job is to say anything to find a buyer and make the sale. Most know more about psychology than boats.

Having said that, I'm sure there are some excellent and honest brokers out there. To them...my apologies.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by rosatte

go to the great lakes area and buy ur boat..no hurricanes no salt water and on the hard for winter..worth the traveling

Toronto is a good place to buy a sailboat...no rocks to hit, and your USD goes 34% farther!

[Mithril Bham]

Believe it or not there are excellent brokers. I know one in the PNW who is impeccable. Vet the broker. Ask for references from the last few boats he has sold and call the customers. If they won't release that info then walk away.

[inet-projects]

Hi,

Is there any German users on here, if there is, is it same for a boat as it is for a house, When I bought our house in Germany I was told all the guttering was new, I could not get up due to snow, and it looked okay, in the spring it was a different matter, it was like a sieve, I was talking to a neighbour about it and she said I could claim, so I did and the original owners had to pay to have it put right.

Is it the same with boats ? as I am soon going to be looking at buying.

Thanks

Dave

[YachtBroker]

Some more research or a good broker knowledgeable about Beneteau product would have told you the Cyclade line was built exclusively for charter.

They didn't even put travelers on the boats. I was shocked how stripped down the boats were when they came out.

That being said I have sold a few ex charter that we're in decent shape it but they were always after the person who bought the boat out of charter replaced everything.

[Browning]

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

(...) In particular when it comes to your 10% deposit. (...)

So you loose the deposit when you decide not to buy a boat because it is crap?

[Sailing Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Browning

So you loose the deposit when you decide not to buy a boat because it is crap?

If you sign acceptance and lender later reverses decision based on something out of your control, yes you lose it. "Liquidated Damages" as per contract.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Well looked after and well built boats are never in the bargin basement where so many are looking. It's good you passed on your experience as hopefully it will give some insight to those that are new to shopping for sailboats.

In my opinion, this is the best advice given to a prospective boat buyer. Whenever you shop for anything, always look at the "best", highest price examples in the market first. It will give you a perspective of what a potentially good boat looks like versus those in the cellar. If you are only looking at "deals," you might never get the quality boat you want and have a great potential to buy a substandard boat. It also helps to know boats from a structural/mechanical perspective where you can weed out problem boats in short time. The worst way to buy any large ticket is to be in a hurry. Unless lucky, you are destined for a bad deal. When we bought our present boat, it took 2 1/2 years of looking at boats in the Midwest, Eastern seaboard and Florida. We only surveyed two boats- one of which we bought in the "dreaded?" Florida East Coast. It was a five-year-old boat with 100 certified engine hours that was a buff and wax away from being a perfect boat(is this possible?). Take your time . . . don't get discouraged . . . and don't settle for a boat less than your standards. As Bruce Van Sant says "like women . . . there's always another one around the corner." Good luck and safe sailing.

[boatman61]

If your looking at Beneteau's then the Oceanis is what you should look at.. something like this..
BVI Yacht Sales Ltd. (Physical: Nanny Cay Marina, Nanny Cay, VG1110, British Virgin Islands)
or this..
BVI Yacht Sales Ltd. (Physical: Nanny Cay Marina, Nanny Cay, VG1110, British Virgin Islands)