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Old 29-04-2008, 08:05   #31
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So far brokers have left me scratching my head. I became interested in a 39 Priviledge. The 1st one couldn't be viewed on weekends ( I work) So when i did arange for a week day, it was under contract, that fell through but I recieved no call back as I requested. This boat stayed on the internet for a couple more months. The next 39 P I tried to see on a Sunday was more of the same from a different broker, no call back on the same day as our initial contact. When we did get contact, the broker was 2 hours away from the boat which was in Palm Coast. He couldn't show it the following Sunday due to a family cookout. I actually tried one more time, similiar results. A few weeks later we had to cancel a day sail with a friend in the Palm Beach area. (engine trouble) I was aware a 45 Cat in West Palm beach. We contacted the broker on the slim chance we could see it. We called on a Sunday morn hoping for a late afternoon apointment. He said he was 3 hrs away and was only showing it when he got several showings together to make his drive worth while.

Holy cow, glad he is not selling my boat. So now this begs the question. Are these yacht brokes like realestate brokers, can they show each others listing. As you can tell i've never used a yacht broker. If I go to Sailboattraderonline and see a boat, call that listing broker, should I instead call one in the town where the boats located regardless of the listing broker.

Am I a tire kicker( we need a nautical term, how about fender kicker) you tell me. I'm 290 days away from the big R. We are waiting for the house to sell(feel my pain?) so as to pay cash for boat. Mean time if found an exceptional value and a good fit I would take out a second on the house.

Hey gang any advice?
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Old 29-04-2008, 09:22   #32
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That has got to be frustrating Herb but I guess brokers probably hear “waiting for the house to sell” and shrug you off.

Try calling the marina office where the boat has been kept to find out who has a key and can show the boat. They may even give the Owner your contact and I am sure he will wake up the broker.

Am I a tire kicker( we need a nautical term, how about fender kicker)”

How about a “cap rail stroker”
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Old 29-04-2008, 11:27   #33
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There really is no way for a boat broker to know how serious the prospective buyer is, so I would imagine a good broker would treat each as if they were very serious. In this internet age, how hard can it be to assemble a nice PDF of the vessel, email it back, and offer to show the vessel?

On the other hand, I am not going to look at quite a few boats before I make my next decision, and I am not going to feel sorry for all the showings that didn't result in a sale.
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Old 29-04-2008, 16:01   #34
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There really is no way for a boat broker to know how serious the prospective buyer is, so I would imagine a good broker would treat each as if they were very serious. In this internet age, how hard can it be to assemble a nice PDF of the vessel, email it back, and offer to show the vessel?

On the other hand, I am not going to look at quite a few boats before I make my next decision, and I am not going to feel sorry for all the showings that didn't result in a sale.
Exactly.

I sold real estate for some years a long time ago--and I always spent time with prospects even if I thought they were not buyers today. I sold eight times more than the city average in sales (total number of sales divided by sales folk registered) for most months. Most of them over-qualified the buyers and drove away prospects. Eventually many of them got fired--especially when I managed the offices where such practices occurred.

I have found so far only three brokers in Oz among the realtive few--only about twenty or so who I have met-- who really knew their vessels and who were accurate in their assessments of the vessels. That is not a very good percentage. One clown even told me he knew exactly zero about the boats--that a survey would reveal that--and if he knew nothing he could never misrepresent anything.

For someone who was thinking of buying this would be one sale not likely to take place. No one wants to buy from an idiot.

I think boat broking and real estate are different entirely. The salesmanship may be similar, but your house is not likely to sink and drown your family if you buy an inferior home. I have seen vessels given a clean survey which were completely unseaworthy--so not all marine surveyors are competent. (Nicer than saying they are dishonest and on the take.)

Selling boats should be as easy as falling off a log. The way to sell something is not by parading an array of boats to a client, but by properly ascertaining their needs and fitting the best type of vessel to fit them commensurate with their ability to pay and the condition of the vessel.

This is how one gets referral business--and in the last recession I still sold three properties a month--down a lot from the boom times--but good wages nontheless. All came from referrals. Farm sales where one earned larger than usual commissions were almost always from referrals--and in Oz the commission structure was far less than in US or Europe.

A good broker needs to understand insurance and finance too--since often one has to arrange both. Competitive finance makes for affordable worry-free deals which settle. Client affordability is what motivated me. I never oversold people--I may have lost the odd home sale to some other shark who over-committed them, but if the clients could afford their property very soon the cost of repaying the mortgage would be much less than the rent they would otherwise pay. Later they could sell and move to a larger home shopuld their circumstances change.

One day I might try my hand at boat brokerage--I have a property in a port city. From what I know is out there filling up office space, if they are surviving at the poor techniques they employ, anyone prepared to pull their finger out and spend some time with people who wish to buy will ultimately out-sell all of the others. Even the non-buyers will recommend you to people who are--if you worked for them they owe you one even if they did not buy. Referring you is the way they repay you. Anyone can make the easy sales. It is the ones you do not expect which make the difference.

We all have sales stories--some highly amusing--but selling is a people business. How can one possibly succeed by alienating people? As a newbie broker you are better off taking ten people out without qualification. At least one of them will buy--two will call you back later for another appointment or will crystallize their needs into something else besides what they told you they wanted and one of them will buy. All of them will refer you.

I once took a young couple out for a stock trip--something I did occasionally with people not in a position to buy immediately--and showed them over some new listings. Naughty me--I had not seen them before so it was what I used to call a "Discovery" trip. They particularly liked one of them but were unable to buy it themselves so they referred friends to me who bought not the one the young couple liked but an even larger property. Later I sold the first couple a home on a small acreage--nothing like what they had originaly wanted but they had changed their priorities. I liked to think not so much that I sold them a property--but I presented it to them. They then bought it from me. I used gentle closes--which are all that one needs to use.

I used to tell my sales staff that people out there wanted to buy from you. All you had you do was stop turning them away.

Call reluctance, taking negative comments personally, being afraid to ask for money--is often covered by a reluctance to take out anyone who is not a surefire self-sold prospect who says "I want this boat/home. Here is my money. It is cash. You do not have to find me a good finance deal. Sign me up!" We all do get these types of buyers--not very often though.

Most people when they approach a broker need help--and not many "brokers" give it to them.

All brokers need do is know their stock--know their finance/insurance (which is always changing--one has to keep up with the rates for the day), then open a notepad, shut up and listen, taking notes of any specific needs, details, phone numbers, deposits, amounts in affordable repayments etc, just tossing in the odd positive prompt--then inject a little excitement into the project and bring it home by making the dream reality for them.

I fired order-takers. Much more useful to me if they were working for someone else in opposition. Although we work for vendors--unless we get a property out of their hands we receive no rewards. We have to work just as hard for clients.

The client is King. Not always right, not always just, but still the King!!

You have to make them feel it is Good to be the King!! (Luvya Mel) Then they might buy something from you.
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Old 29-04-2008, 16:37   #35
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Quote:
In this internet age, how hard can it be to assemble a nice PDF of the vessel, email it back, and offer to show the vessel?
Good brokers take the time to make an informative listing with good quality pictures. It helps cut down on the traffic from people that really know nothing about these type of boats. If you look for the better looking ads you will find the better brokers. If the ad shows little then you know the broker does not take working for a living very serious. Why would they spend time with you?

They do have to feel people out and decide if would be buyers are serious. You can't pretend that they all are just about to close. If you can get them on the phone then be ready with some good questions and try convey your serious attitude. In the end you can only buy the boats really for sale. That means they have to be shown on some notice. There are a great many boats that are always listed for sale and never get sold. Just as there may be tire kickers there are also tires with kick me ads.

The better approach is to not be too narrow in your choices. Picking one brand and year of a particular boat is doomed for the most part. If you can find a half dozen then maybe only a few of those can be seen at all. Just as the broker can't wait to sell the boat until you come looking you can't wait for the broker either.

Don't hang on the string for a broker. They are wasting your time. The system works or does not work the same each way. If they don't care why should you? Move on!
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Old 29-04-2008, 18:23   #36
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One day I might try my hand at boat brokerage--I have a property in a port city. From what I know is out there filling up office space, if they are surviving at the poor techniques they employ, anyone prepared to pull their finger out and spend some time with people who wish to buy will ultimately out-sell all of the others.
I think many people post Broker "Experiance" thinks of that one!
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Old 29-04-2008, 19:23   #37
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I think Paul’s advice is right on about judging the work ethic of a yacht broker.

Even in the Super yacht industry when I was representing a qualified employer looking for a +70m used yacht, some brokers would fax over just the poor photocopies of the listing sheet, while others couriered over a proper presentation and the supporting history that I requested.

It was no surprise which Brokers made the sale and which brokers tried to hinder it by getting their pound of flesh for doing nothing but the odd favour for the owner.

Having said that; at the end of the day a boat either “grabs you” or it doesn’t and the broker is just along for the ride. So best to choose one who is not a professional parasite.
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Old 29-04-2008, 19:27   #38
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Also what some of these brokers forget is that probably nine times out of ten a boat buyer will be a boat seller in the not too distant future either buying up or down or celebrating the second happiest day. Mike is correct, but then any business is that way. You get out what you put in.
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Old 29-04-2008, 19:37   #39
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Are broker listings exclusive. If so why would someone have their boat in a different city than the broker West Palm Beach should have plenty of brokers but this broker was 3 hrs away. does not compute. Oh well I've still got 290 days till we go cruising.
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Old 29-04-2008, 20:31   #40
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Also what some of these brokers forget is that probably nine times out of ten a boat buyer will be a boat seller in the not too distant future either buying up or down or celebrating the second happiest day.
Only the good ones think that far ahead. We bought and sold our first boat with the same broker. We bought our second from someone equally as good. It's not hard to tell who is a good broker and who is not. All that aside it was the boat we bought and it wasn't because the broker was better. Our first boat sold quickly and the broker put out a great ad. It was on Yachtworld less than 24 hours. That is not the usual but you need a great add with lots of details and good pictures if you expect to sell a boat. I see so many lame ads and wonder how these people eat regularly. Truth is they don't.

If you find a great boat with an idiot broker you could lose it. all the good brokers I have talked with say the same thing. The longer the deal hangs out there not closed the better the chance it will die before close. Good brokers help find ways to close the deal. I think this idea of Buyers vs. Seller brokers is mostly BS. You can't play favorites selling boats. You close them any way that works. You play both sides and try to make the deal work. No one is that good that they can steer the seller or buyer in a direction they don't want to go. A closed deal pays better than one you screwed up. Any long time broker knows that.

It's the dumb stuff. It's true in every profession on the planet. You don't really have to be that good to be better than most. It does not speak well of most people though.
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Old 29-04-2008, 20:41   #41
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I like the brokers who think, for some strange reason, that nobody does any research at all before fronting up, and that the prices that they are asking couldn't possibly be compared with the prices from other brokers. Maybe their clients have inflated ideas that the broker can't talk them out of, but if I can get on a nationwide search engine and check out the prices for your particular model of boat, don't be expecting to be able to charge 25% more than the next most expensive on in the country...

Frankly, when I bought me boat, I found the one I wanted, asked around and get contact details for the owner, contacted him directly and did the whole deal on a handshake. Saved myself $5k+ on brokers fees.
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Old 30-04-2008, 06:00   #42
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Herbseemore,

I wouldn't call that a fender kicker. It is an oppurtunity to see what is all available to you. As someone else posted here. The boat will reachout, and grab you. The only thing that MIGHT keep you from buying the boat that does that is the lack of enough money.

Tardog,

Did you make it to the Bay Area, and call Neil? Neil, and Jerry who is in St. Maarten made my deal happen when the owner, and I were at odds on price.These guys are hands on, and knowledgable. If you haven't called Neil yet, and plan to. Then tell him the mufflerman sent you.......LOL
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Old 30-04-2008, 06:09   #43
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I think this idea of Buyers vs. Seller brokers is mostly BS. You can't play favorites selling boats. You close them any way that works. You play both sides and try to make the deal work.
Paul, I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying buyers brokers are a good thing or a bad thing?

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If you look for the better looking ads you will find the better brokers. If the ad shows little then you know the broker does not take working for a living very serious. Why would they spend time with you?
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Don't hang on the string for a broker. They are wasting your time. The system works or does not work the same each way. If they don't care why should you? Move on!
It sounds like you're describing shopping for a broker, not a boat.
Unfortunately, sometimes good boats get listed by bad brokers, so you're really limiting yourself by walking away from every poorly represented boat. The boat with the crappy pictures and illiterate generated description will sit on the market longer. The boat whose broker makes it difficult to show will sit on the market longer. These factors will sometimes make the boat owner more desperate and more willing to sell for less. That's why I feel a buyers broker can help, as long as you find a good one who you trust and is working for you, they can tell you 'hey, the boat with the crappy listing has been on the market for a year and a half.' The listing broker won't ever tell you that. Also, the buyers broker is getting paid to deal with all of the bad broker's problems. A buyers broker saves you having to be vetted as serious by every single listing broker of every boat you look at. This service only comes at the cost of the listing brokers commision, no cost to you! By using a buyers broker, you don't have to limit yourself to 'only the boats represented by great boat brokers'. You only need to find one great boat broker, and then ALL of the boats can be in your shopping pool.
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Old 30-04-2008, 08:55   #44
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As my experience turns out, before my broker wandered off, my wife asked if he had any other boats similar to the one we were looking at that we may be interested in...his answer was "No". As it turns out, they had two more boats by the same manufacturer that were nearly the same length. Absolutely amazing. As he was smoking his last cigarette (the boat cockpit was full of butts) he mentioned that if we hadn't heard of it, there was a website called Yachtworld that would help us figure out what we were interested in! And he encouraged us to spend a few hours there. (isn't the internets a series of tubes?)

Hilarious. A chapter in the book of life for sure.
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Old 30-04-2008, 09:13   #45
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Hey tardog - I can suggest a broker down in SD if you still need it. Ended up not being the broker we bought through but only by chance.

He looked at boats critically (based on what we are planning), suggested more realistic prices than the listing prices and researched boats for us up and down the West Coast. I would have been happy with him getting the commision.

He was also rebuilding his own cruising boat.
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