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Old 10-02-2009, 13:50   #16
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Ok you know we are talking about boats and not car's. But I do sell cars for a living and there are two types of buyers on the market. The asking price buyer and the negotiating buyer.

I can sell the same car to both and one will pay $3000 to $ 5000 more then the other. Funny enough that the one that Pay's full list price, you never hear from again until they need another car. The penny pincher is the one that complains and is a pain in the ass for months to come.

I personally do not negotiate price when I shop, unless it is used. I would expect to ask someone with a used Hunter 30 for 11 500.00 to sell it for 9500.00 and we would settle on 10500.00

Your offer is not to actually buy the boat, it is to find out what you cant buy it for. Until you find out what you cant buy it for, you cant buy it with a discount! You make an offer, the seller say's no. You look the seller in the eyes and say

" Mr. Seller I really like your vessel and would love to own it but it is over my budget, please tell me what you will let it go for right now".

The seller will say " I wont sell it for less then $11 000.00"!

You look him in the eyes again soften your voice and say

"Mr. Seller, I have $10 000.00 that my wife said I can spend and you are at $ 11000. I do have an extra 500 that my wife doesn't know about, if you meet me half way I will buy it right NOW!

Grab your lifejacket and get ready to cruise you just got a deal and you are going sailing.

The fear of loss is greater then the fear of gain. The seller will not loose a deal over $ 500.00 in this example but that $ 500 just paid for your boat lanch or case of good rum to keep in the locker.

Think of selling and buying as a game and have fun with it. I used those numbers off the top of my head. Of course boats can be very expensive so its up to the buyer to start at an offer price and you go from there.

Cheers
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Old 10-02-2009, 13:57   #17
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As Paul has stated it does not matter if you have cash. First of all the finance buyer has more pull then the cash buyer. This is because every dealer gets kick backs from the bank. For the business they get.

On a $20 000.00 car my dealership will get $ 800.00 back from the bank for your business. So tell me who will get the better deal a cash buyer or finance buyer. Of course this only works if you finance through the dealer himself.

Again talking about cars, I love when people tell me they will put it on a line of credit. That just means my gross profit will be higher, as a salesmen you get paid on gross profit not bank kickbacks.
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Old 10-02-2009, 14:00   #18
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The fear of loss is greater then the fear of gain. The seller will not loose a deal over $ 500.00 in this example but that $ 500 just paid for your boat launch or case of good rum to keep in the locker.
The fear of loss is real but what about the buyer? Cars are a dime a dozen so all the Texas Hold 'em rules work pretty well. Lots of buyers and sellers. Too many of both really. $500 on a $10,000 deal is 5%. Most boats can be argued over for 5% almost always. I can tip a waiter an extra 5% just because I feel good. It's a lot easier to say you won on 5% than 30%. If you sell a lot of used cars you can live well on 5%.
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Old 10-02-2009, 14:12   #19
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You are talking new boats, right. If so, there isn't a whole lot of manuevering room for the broker. Don't know what mark up is on new boats but doubt that it would be more than 20% and probably not that. A dealer isn't going to sell the boat at a loss unless they are facing imminent insolvency. Actually, their bank probably wouldn't allow them to do that as it's really the bank who has paid to floor the boat.
I disagree about the bank, they'll off it quick as their in the lending business not the boat business. The current economic crisis has throwen past prices in the trash, in my opinion. My vote is 20% off a new boat, and hold your ground.

This is a hot discussion, not just with boats but everything.
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Old 10-02-2009, 14:39   #20
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Old 10-02-2009, 14:50   #21
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To further my earlier post. It doesn't matter what the discount is when you buy the product or service. It could be 5% or 10% or 30% but its a discount. You dont get a discount on any product or service unless you ask for it.

Shoot for the stars and land on the moon! If you ask for 25% off you might get 10% . There is no logic behind sales. Either you pay full price or you ask for a discount and to do that you need to present an offer. Cross shop online, compair other sister ships and do your homework so you are a educated buyer. But never pay asking price for anything unless you think its worth it, after your homework is done.

Zig Ziggler, a famous Salesmen and trainner said " You can never pay to much for a product or service you want so bad"

There is no poker game going on here, you dont have to buy anything you dont want and you can walk away at anytime.

"BUT YOU WILL NOT GET A DISCOUNT IF YOU DONT ASK"

It is hard enough to make money, it shouldn't be hard to spend it.
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Old 10-02-2009, 15:35   #22
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I believe he said NEW boats. Used I'd start about 35% or more off. New... no idea....
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Old 10-02-2009, 15:45   #23
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Once you are emotionally involved and cant walk away you are screwed. Find 2 you like, offer on the one you like best and when he responds tell him you just cant decide so should probably offer on the other before you can be sure. (there are always a bunch of details to muddy the water, like: "your boat is loaded with gear, but it's all nearing 5 years old, and the life of gear on boats seems to be about 7 years, The other boat is less equipped and less money but with the difference I can buy my own new electronics...." etc) Be personable and respectful, but firm. Everyone has that "skeleton in the closet" on their boat. Sometimes by doing this you actually find out what it is! You dont even have to be sure you want to buy boat #2, "good cop bad cop". Hardball... drives the brokers nuts! They all expect you to be emotionally involved!
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Old 10-02-2009, 16:08   #24
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Yes I am talking new. From a dealer.


Yes, I wish a few people read your first post properly so they could leave out all the stuff about used boat market as its different!

We are currently researching and saw a dealer just 2 weeks ago.

There is a difficulty with exchange rates internationally and where the boat is made is going to be an interesting factor.
Some dealers are saying the price fluctuation has been absorbed by the manufacturer/dealer.

Is this a reality? Or do they normally give a discount on some of the options in the package but now charge full rate?

I don't think there will be too much movement on the actual dollar price on the listing figure. Why? Because its too easy to put it on the net and all would know. People would be less likely to tell about, and dealers could more easily deny, sweeteners... "On the quiet, if you sign today, I'll put that watermaker on for you..."

As I said, we have just started looking and we are a long way off, so we are very interested to see other peoples ideas and experience.



All I know definitely is that I want the weather in the brochures!!!!!!!


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Old 10-02-2009, 16:30   #25
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No one really cares if you are paying cash or getting a loan. It's a myth paying cash gets you anything. ...
How can this be true?

In today's credit market a sale isn't a sale until the bank says OK. They aren't saying "OK" as much as they used to.

If I were selling my boat tomorrow, and if the prospective buyer had the cash in the bank and could close immediately, you're darn right he get's a discount..

Just my opinion
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Old 10-02-2009, 18:08   #26
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You never know what a person will sell for, but you dont want to insult them either.
I've heard this statement many times, I've never really understood it.
It's business not personal. A seller can always laugh at an offer, or simply say no. When I purchased my house, I moved up a few times the buyer came down a few times and then we were deadlocked. I called my broker and told him I was done...let's move on....the next day ( saturday )
I got a call and the deal was struck...the brokers decided to each gave up a few points to make the deal happen. The key in my mind was that I was not emotionally attached to the deal and was prepared to walk away.

I've been watching 5 sister boats for that are for sale. They were all priced similarly except for one. Yesterday, the price came down 7% on the odd one out. Now they are all priced similarly. The next step in my mind would be to go kick the tires on them to find the best one or two.
Also, what's the market? There are 5 boats, are their 5 buyers looking for that boat ? Harder to guage! Time on the market might be an indicator,
The boat that's been on the market longest, now has 4 others alongside it.
Clearly, the seller and broker of the boat that just came down 7% are looking at the same field that I am. ( 7% was $11,000 )
I'm guessing that with 5 very similar limited production boats, on the market at the same time in a reasonable geographic area... I might have a great bargaining position.

There's the sellers price..which we all want to try and " find" but then there's the buyers price. What are you willing to pay for the boat that you want ? The guy who just came down 7% is probably going to choke on another 7 to 10 %...but the boat that's been on the market for a year may jump at it. There's alot that goes into making a deal....
If I thought I could get another 7% I might offer 15% less and wait for the counter offer ..it will come, insulted or not...if it doesn't there's 4 others.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:15   #27
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This post has sparked some real opinions and I think we are all right in our own way. Lets face it every deal is different. I think the important thing here is that you are happy with the price you pay.

Do your homework, research, and cross shoping. I wont buy a boat in Canada because the market prices here are so much more. Even with the weak dollar it makes more since to buy in the states and sail it home. I am looking at used at this point, and I am not sure about new prices across boarders but its worth a look too.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:14   #28
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Just curious... I'd rather pay a fair price than get a good "deal" (where I might be forced to feel bad for the distressed seller). Am I in the vast minority? Is the exchange of money always seen as zero-sum "war"?
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