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Old 01-11-2011, 11:49   #1
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Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

Hi All....

I have a US built vessel I will be importing to the UK or some where in the EU. The engines will need replacing, (66hp Yanmar main and 10 hp Kabuta Donkey) to bring them into kite mark emissions boundaries. I will also be getting the stability curve done. This can all be done in Fort Lauderdale (Florida)

My question;
Is there any way of getting the VAT assessed and paid in the USA, preferably Florida? Any EC embassies have this type of department? Preferably the lower VAT countries!!

Kind regards to all, Ed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:57   #2
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

Not possible . The VAT is applicable by the service provider who is entitled then to levy the taxe on behalf of the government.
If the service is provided in Florida you are out of EU and you will not be charged the VAT, you will be charged any local sales or service tax.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:08   #3
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

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Originally Posted by Needosh View Post
Hi All....

I have a US built vessel I will be importing to the UK or some where in the EU. The engines will need replacing, (66hp Yanmar main and 10 hp Kabuta Donkey) to bring them into kite mark emissions boundaries. I will also be getting the stability curve done. This can all be done in Fort Lauderdale (Florida)

My question;
Is there any way of getting the VAT assessed and paid in the USA, preferably Florida? Any EC embassies have this type of department? Preferably the lower VAT countries!!

Kind regards to all, Ed.

This is a complex area. By "KiteMark" I presume you mean the CE mark. Note that this , in general must be done by an approved "Named body". The named body can appoint surveyors etc. Theres much much more to it then emissions and stabilty curves. Note there should be no need to change the engines, only new engines have to met the latest citerion.

Before you go any further, or do any specific, I suggest you contact a company authorised to carry out " Post Construction CE approvals". CEPROOF on the Hamble river ( www.ceproof.com) in the UK might be a good place to start. The requirements are very different depending on what CE category you intend to certify it in.

VAT is much easier. Yes you can seek a determination in advance , but not payment. You cannot do it in the US, as the vessel must be imported first. You can contact teh customs authority of the EU country that you "select" as the destination. Technically thats the country the boat finally ends up in , But many pay in the Azores as it has a low (16%) rate of VAT. Language difficulties make if difficult to do this in English. Again , you cannot pre-pay VAT.

Note that the VAT is calculated on the current financial value of the vesssel, so be careful about doing to many "improvements" in advance of VAT. If you have owned the vessel for some time you can apply normal fixed asset depreciation rules to the "book value". However if youve bought it recently that sales invoice will most likely be the value they will use, unless it looks very low. ( its a bit of a game, valuing 2nd hand depreciating assets with customs).

Id look carefully into the CE stuff first as it can be complex and expensive , especially if you have to do a lot of modifications. It rarely makes financial sense, but then nothing with boats does.

Dave
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:10   #4
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

Hi there Alicadi,

thanks for such a speedy response!

My concern is the vat import duty that will be applied to Avatar when we enter European waters, most likely in the Azores. I would like the boat to be assessed for VAT before we bring it up to kite mark standards if possible... There will be no VAT'able service, it will be a pure import...

Kind regards Ed
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:26   #5
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

Hi Dave,
firstly, thanks for the incredibly rapid and well thought out mail.

As you say financial sense and 'boating'... It is difficult to put the words into the same sentence!!

There is a place in Ft Lauderdale (cemyboat@aol.com) that does Kite mark surveys for the boats being exported to Europe, mainly production run motor boats from what i can gather... They are advising me re the requirements for the engines. It looks like they would need to be replaced but from your mail I will look a little deeper... it would be great to leave them alone as they both fire first kick and run wonderfully... But I doubt I will be that lucky!

Thanks for the help re the VAT we have about 4 yrs of use from her, I hadn't thought of depreciation... the fall of the dollar might push up the liabilities if there's hyperinflation and they stick that into their assessment... That is why even though we are not planning to come back for a few years we were thinking better sooner than later... and remotely if at all possible...

Cheers Dave, Ed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:33   #6
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

Just remember its not a survey. You must secure CE marking for the boat before importation into the EU. I'm surprised anyone calls this a "kitemark". Depending on the CE category you elect to go for ( A,B,C or D) the requirements vary hugely. Changes in Electrical systems, fuel pipes and tankage, hatches windows etc can be necessary. Sound bypass testing may also be required. The company doing the "surveying" MUST be a notified body for CE approval or their approved agents.

see also ce marking,ce marking consultancy,ce certification,CE Marked in teh US.

You could try the normal 20% fixed line depreciation on teh asset value. I had that accepted in Palma de Majorica on a icelandic owned motor boat many years ago
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:35   #7
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Re: Kite mark and VAT to take vessel from USA to EU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Needosh View Post
Hi there Alicadi,

thanks for such a speedy response!

My concern is the vat import duty that will be applied to Avatar when we enter European waters, most likely in the Azores. I would like the boat to be assessed for VAT before we bring it up to kite mark standards if possible... There will be no VAT'able service, it will be a pure import...

Kind regards Ed
This will be determined after evaluation of the boat by the customs when entering the boat and declaring her for import to EU.
Then the VAT will be calculated and payable at that place.
Alec
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:25   #8
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

Are you a U.K. citizen or hold a passport from an EU country and have been living outside of the EU zone for several years? If so, you are an ex-Pat and can bring in your belongings, which would include your boat, free of VAT. There are a couple of "gotchas" but it could save you a lot of money.
If you do have to pay VAT, the the VAT in the UK is 20%, if you enter the EU in lower VAT-rate countries you might also save some money.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:38   #9
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

Zanshin... I've heard about the UK scheme but don't know anything about it. Do you know what the main gotchas are?

To the OP... Do you really need to go to all that trouble? If the boat is registered outside of the EU the boat can 'visit' for up to 6 months at a time then leave for a day or more and travel outside the EU ( Gibraltar qualifies for that, and the Channel Islands, maybe Monaco) so of course does Morocco or Tunisia or Turkey.
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:56   #10
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

hopefully this helps

IF you change your permanent residence you are exempted from VAT. You must declare your intentions and "personal goods" (boat) within a given time from arrival (30 days?). EU citienship is not required (but a valid residency permit is).

C 3 - Bringing personal belongings to UK from outside the European Community

Now, the CE mark is a different issue. I appears to me that this is enforced differently in each country, but basically you are required to obtain CE certification "upon introducing the vessel to the CE market". Usually this is a requirement for registration or "flagging" of the vessel in the EU country. I am not sure, but IF you can maintain the US flag (VAT paid) and the boat is not sold, you may not have to get the CE cert right away. Basically, is my understanding that the CE stamp is required when presenting documentation for registration. If you can keep the vessel under its original US flag you may be able to bypass or postpone the issue. ou will not be able to sell the boat in the EU though.

I am not sure about this one. Does anybody else know the rules for keeping the original regisntration of a pleasure boat (VAT paid)? It should be similar as somebody from say France owning his french registered boat while living in the UK. Is registration/reflagging mandatory in the UK (it is in Spain)? Are there some time limits?

cheers
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:28   #11
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pirate Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

I bought a boat in the States and VAT'd it in the Azores (Horta)... there is the local chandlers will do all the paperwork for you for a small fee (200euro)... may well have gone up since..
As for the CE... that only matters if/when you sell the boat... however if you sell it From a non EU country (Turkey/Tunisia)... then even that can be avoided.
If its for your own use... no CE... if for sale... need CE
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:38   #12
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

Dear Mr / Mrs Zanshin,

there will be a statue raised in your name on board Avatar! Do you know who i should contact in regards to finding out the details?

I tried the VAT web site and it was worse than a field of coral heads! I had been in there almost an hour and then it wouldn't let me proceed without an agent....! Do you know where I could get one of those?

Could this be sorted before entry? I'd hate to have my home impounded whilst it all gets sorted!

Thank you for the uplifting message!

Off to make the coffee!

(Raining hard here)

Kind regards E
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:04   #13
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

Hi Boatman!

thanks for the posting, I am looking into it but it seemed the CE mark also defined the waters we would be allowed to sail in (12" waves up to 7 meters!LOL)? If this is correct and we wont need to change out the engines and have a stability curve generated then It will be a dual statue raising day!

We are not concerned with selling at the moment, just want to cruise Scotland for one last time!
Then maybe a canal boat!! lol

Do you know a legal unbiased person who might be able to give me advice on this?

Kindest regards Ed.
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Old 03-11-2011, 08:13   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needosh View Post
Hi Boatman!

thanks for the posting, I am looking into it but it seemed the CE mark also defined the waters we would be allowed to sail in (12" waves up to 7 meters!LOL)? If this is correct and we wont need to change out the engines and have a stability curve generated then It will be a dual statue raising day!

We are not concerned with selling at the moment, just want to cruise Scotland for one last time!
Then maybe a canal boat!! lol

Do you know a legal unbiased person who might be able to give me advice on this?

Kindest regards Ed.
Get in touch with these guys.... they've been at it a while and are Brits/SA so should have a good knowledge base considering how many Brits have taken boats through there...
Cap d'Ail
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:12   #15
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Re: Kite Mark and VAT to Take Vessel from USA to EU

I understand this works if the vessel is skippered/crewed by none EU residents, sadly an EU passport holder can only help the none EU passport guy for a limited time...

They seem to have it all sown up.. or is it stitched up !! lol

Thank you for the posting.
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