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Old 11-12-2012, 02:46   #106
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Have the 'Boxes' been listed on here and I missed them...
No the boxes have not been listed. This discussion was started to gauge opinion on the financial angle of our plan. I did not want it to become a catamaran versus monohull debate or a boat search discussion as we have that covered.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:53   #107
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

To everyone.
Thank you for your input and helping to put a different perspective on the financial side of our plan. Your comments have been useful and have been the subject of much discussion between my wife and I. We have now widened our search criteria to include less expensive and smaller catamarans.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:33   #108
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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the answer is also not to restrict "rear wheel drive" to only the car .
Oh, man. You had to go there...
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Old 11-12-2012, 17:03   #109
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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Hello everyone.

We (my wife and I) have a dream to live aboard our own boat. We both have some sailing experience and qualifications so we are not completely unaware of what we are letting ourselves in for, but I do have concerns about our finances.

We are quite homely people and live very modestly. I am very capable and self-sufficient in terms of skills and there is very little I cannot do myself or learn to do myself. We expect we will live a similar modest and self-sufficient lifestyle when we live on our own boat. We both enjoy sailing and hate motoring. We also dislike marinas and prefer the idea of living at anchor as much as possible. Anticipated cruising areas would be US east coast, Caribbean, northern Europe, maybe eastern Mediterranean.

We are from England and are both approaching 50 years old. We will have to wait until we are 67 before we have any pension income so what money we have will have to last us 17 years.

If we sell the house, car, possessions and add up all our savings we come up with a total of about US $480,000 (converted from British as I know this is mainly an American forum).

We want to have a nice 'home' afloat and want to spend a maximum of $190,000 on a sailing catamaran about 40' in length. This will leave us with $290,000 to live on. My calculations allow for a total budget of $19,000 per year, rising 2.5% per year for inflation. That $19,000 per year has to include everything: boat insurance, maintenance, repairs, fuel, food, clothes, etc, etc. Is this realistic or are we being naive?

My calculations are in the attached spreadsheet.

Attachment 50807

All feedback, thoughts and advice welcome.

Thank you.
Before you give up and throw in the towel, I'd sit down with a financial advisor or good accountant and see if the numbers make sense. You might well be able to do better than the 4% return you are forecasting, and your expenses may not inflate at 2.5%. You (or some qualified) needs to look at the bits and pieces and maybe reevaluate. Also, maybe you can find a slightly cheaper cat. Finding savings of $10-20K in a few places could make a big difference.
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Old 11-12-2012, 17:12   #110
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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Before you give up and throw in the towel, I'd sit down with a financial advisor or good accountant and see if the numbers make sense. You might well be able to do better than the 4% return you are forecasting, and your expenses may not inflate at 2.5%. You (or some qualified) needs to look at the bits and pieces and maybe reevaluate. Also, maybe you can find a slightly cheaper cat. Finding savings of $10-20K in a few places could make a big difference.
Our financial adviser said to assume 5% return to be on the safe side. So I used 4% in my calculations to be safer than on the safe side! The 2.5% was for general inflation. It might be more but I doubt it would be less. Had to allow something for inflation so 2.5% it was. We are now considering a cheaper catamaran.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:33   #111
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Originally Posted by Bill4

Our financial adviser said to assume 5% return to be on the safe side. So I used 4% in my calculations to be safer than on the safe side! The 2.5% was for general inflation. It might be more but I doubt it would be less. Had to allow something for inflation so 2.5% it was. We are now considering a cheaper catamaran.
I really do hope it works for you. Just curious, is it the heeling that leads you to cats only? Or the shoal draft? Just wondering what makes one solely a "cat person" when price is an issue.

Just seems that there is a much higher price threshold in cats to get a true "blue water capable" sailboat. I mostly refer to comfort motion, lack of pounding, etc in the criteria, not wanting to open up another safety debate.

Not trying to convince you as your mind is made up, but for other readers to comment- my opinion is that if you want a blue water cruiser for total purchase+refit cost under 150K you have a ton of better options in the mono department.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:50   #112
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

well as someone who has always been in multihulls...

You can find modestly priced higher end cats, especially right now. The caveat is that they'll need to be worked on. It might be a smart move for you to think about doing what we're doing: buying a sail-able boat that needs some work, and while we're still working (ergo not retired yet) fixing it up.

You'll learn about the boat and how to maintain it and get the initial costs down. Long term prolly not the cheapest but then you'll have exactly what you want done the way you want it. At least that's my rationale.

Otherwise contemplate modest multihulls: Wharrams, Heavenly Twins, Catalacs, Brown trimarans, Piver trimarans, and the like come to mind.

No matter what boat you'll get, it'll need fixing. I figured I'd just buy one that I liked mostly that needed stuff replacing and do the replacement to my liking. So far I'm pretty happy with the choice.

good luck
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Old 13-12-2012, 01:10   #113
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

Hello, in your place, I would prefer to read a book from Fatty Goodlander. You can find it on Amazon for 13 USD. After reading it, you will be much more experienced in what you want to do. Also you will find out, that with your money, you can do it twice and easily.
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Old 13-12-2012, 02:10   #114
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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+1

I usually don't do this, but your comments pain me.

Seriously Bill, I don't get it. You say you want to live a "modest and self-sufficient lifestyle," you say you are "happy to go with something more modest so we can go cruising sooner rather than later," yet you are insisting on a boat which goes against these statements. A $190K boat may not be a Ferrari, but it's a far cry from a modest vessel. You could easily acquire a sound, solid and comfortable cruising vessel for 1/2 that amount, and then have plenty in the bank to achieve your goals.

It sure looks like you're working hard to make sure your dream remains just that.
Bill4

Sounds like you are on the right path. On this forum you will always find someone trying to diswade you from a cat to a mono, always.

Cheers
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Old 13-12-2012, 06:41   #115
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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...............On this forum you will always find someone trying to diswade you from a cat to a mono, always.

Cheers
...or on this forum you will always find someone trying to dissuade you from "A" to "B" ..... and "B" to "A" also! There's a large group of experienced people here that are very pleased with their choices and their success has caused them to promote their decissions. Sometimes they don't see the other side and they are often too harsh, but these strong opinions drive the machine.
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Old 13-12-2012, 06:59   #116
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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Sounds like you are on the right path. On this forum you will always find someone trying to diswade you from a cat to a mono, always.
Uhm... I have not said don't buy a cat. I said the OP can make his dream come true by purchasing a more modest boat.

I don't mind people criticizing my words downunder, but don't put your words in my mouth.
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Old 13-12-2012, 07:07   #117
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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Uhm... I have not said don't buy a cat. I said the OP can make his dream come true by purchasing a more modest boat.
I think for the most part that has been our CF group recommendation.
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Old 13-12-2012, 07:28   #118
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

I know of a fully kitted out leopard 38 for sale. Great for a couple and a proven blue water cruiser
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Old 13-12-2012, 17:52   #119
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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I know of a fully kitted out leopard 38 for sale. Great for a couple and a proven blue water cruiser
Price? is is under his budget?
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Old 13-12-2012, 19:15   #120
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Re: Is this possible or are we being unrealistic and naive?

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I think for the most part that has been our CF group recommendation.
Fair enough and is often the case of recommendation by owners of monos on CF (to be expected from my observation).

However the OP came back to the thread and firmly indicated no thanks and that he was looking at lower value cats.

Some people prefer monos, some cats, all have compromises. Most people have their own valid reasons. Hope he finds a suitable vessel.

Cheers
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