Is there really a buyer's shortage?

[jm21]

Originally Posted by nautical62

I'm trying to sell an 97 Hunter I purchased just 3 years ago. I think I'll be lucky to get 2/3 of what I paid for it, despite fixing many expensive problems.

In addition to people just having less disposable income as Zeehag mentioned, I think the huge increases in dockage and insurance have made many people shy away from some of the under 30K boats. These days one can easily spend if 5 years what the boat cost, just for dockage, insurance and minimal maintenance.

Add the moorage, a small boat loan, and insurance, electricity, and basic maintenance...that's about equal to a small mortgage where I live...makes it a financial PITA to have a boat you only use on the weekends. I calculated out my last year comparing what I spent versus the days I used it and it was going on $200 per night I spent on the boat. You really either need to live on the boat or have at least an upper middle class job/lifestyle to make a boat worthwhile anymore.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by nautical62

In addition to people just having less disposable income

Sorry but I dont see it.. My shop is booked 2 months out and that includes dodgers and biminis as well as full inclosures for power boats..
Went to cosco last night and the isles were full of carts heaped over with everything from pool furniture to ice cream..
If we are in a money shortage, I dont see it..

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by jm21

You really either need to live on the boat or have at least an upper middle class job/lifestyle to make a boat worthwhile anymore.

and there you've hit the nail on the head.. It cost to own a boat, any boat,
Its not a down market, or economy slow down, Its a reality check!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

Something 5 years old is not new. Electronics can last 20 years, but tell that to several of mine that have given up at about 5 years.....and yes they were marine instruments.

I view any electronic over 5 years old as a potential failure and will likely need replaced within the next 5 years as routine.

Your mileage may vary, but electronics in the marine environment get rough treatment.

I agree with you as far as purchasing, anything over 5 years adds little value to the boat in my mind. Ditto for any work done over 7-8 years ago, hoses, pumps etc.... Amazingly, radars seem to keep working better than anything... they have more parts and moving parts so it is kind of interesting... maybe just my luck in the past though.
I t hink it is a reality check... maybe prices are more where they should be , for real estate and boats!

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Sir G

I have been scouting the used yacht market for about a year now, although for various reasons the decision to actually buy one could only be made this week. Over the months I bookmarked and shortlisted about 30 units in the 46-ft, upmarket range (HR, Najad, Hylas, Oyster et al. most of them 5 to 10 years old) and set up alerts for new offerings. Well, about two thirds of these are no longer advertised, meaning that they have either been sold or removed from the market. This seems to indicate that, at least in that particular build range, reasonably recent, well equipped yachts, sell quite fast. Of course, I don't know how long they actually stayed on the market, except for a few I saw come and go in no time.

It is indeed reminiscent of what happens on the used homes market.

Did you look at this boat ? It was #2 on my short list when I was shopping around. You get a proper keel which is rare for Hylas.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=49306&url=

This was #3 and a huge load of kit is included. It has just had a big price reduction so this owner is serious.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ng_id=1642&url=

[Cheechako]

"This seems to indicate that, at least in that particular build range, reasonably recent, well equipped yachts, sell quite fast. Of course, I don't know how long they actually stayed on the market, except for a few I saw come and go in no time."

Things are starting to turn around I think. The home market in Seattle is now back to the multiple offers and selling above listing price mode! However, this is for homes that are $500k maybe $600k and up! Ditto I think in the boat market.... the newer more expensive ones may be moving. If you were planning on retiring, got pasted in teh market down turn, but left your money in , the market should have you back where you were by now.... unless the company you invested with is completely gone!

[zeta]

I am currently looking for my cruising boat and there are plenty of boats available in the current market, I'll know the right one when I find it so I am in no hurry, but ready at the trigger. I agree good boats go fast and buyer must be at the ready.
Seller's market maybe wishful thinking on folks wanting to sell a boat, but the market is down and there are many great boats available for much less than 5 yrs ago. Hans Christians <70K, Southern Cross <30K, etc. I'm talking 20/30+ year old boats, with many in very good condition. Yes many will take some time/money to suit ones needs, but so do newer boats.
True turn key newer boats will be priced sometimes more than new, but for me this is not what I am looking for. Many of the newer boats are priced way over market value because owner believes boat is worth more than it is or they are upside down on them.
IMHO, cash, not falling in love, and ready to move, will get you more boat for your money than anytime I've seen in my lifetime.

[casual]

For what it is worth,I,listed my boat with a local broker I,owned this boat for 22 years sold it in 1 month for within 10% of what I,paid for it 22 years ago.I,know a dollar isn't worth as much.I,had three back ups if no 1 didn't go.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

Something 5 years old is not new. Electronics can last 20 years, but tell that to several of mine that have given up at about 5 years.....and yes they were marine instruments.

I view any electronic over 5 years old as a potential failure and will likely need replaced within the next 5 years as routine.

Your mileage may vary, but electronics in the marine environment get rough treatment.

Don't think 5 year old instruments are new but I would not routinely replace everything of that age just because it was not "new". Sure some stuff dies, but the overwhelming majority of the marine gear I've ever owned has operated reliably for way beyond 5 years. Still using a 30 year old Standard Horizon handheld VHF. 25 year old radar, 16 year old S-H fixed mount VHF, handheld GPS of undetermined age but guessing at least 15 years. No idea what's still working on the boats I've sold over the years.

[Chattcatdaddy]

I can not speak for others, but I got a great deal on my Pearson Ariel in great condition. Just had to add cruising gear as it was used strictly as a daysailer. Deals are out there as well as alot of crap. Lots and lots of boats out there for sale, but the good ones usually go fast.

[JRM]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Sorry but I dont see it.. My shop is booked 2 months out and that includes dodgers and biminis as well as full inclosures for power boats..
Went to cosco last night and the isles were full of carts heaped over with everything from pool furniture to ice cream..
If we are in a money shortage, I dont see it..

Neither did Marie Antoinette. I was up near the delta in Brentwood last weekend and it was straight out of Lifestyle Magazine. Down here where I work it's bad, and getting worse.

As far as boat buying goes, it's very frustrating. We specifically set our spec to be as generic as possible. Somewhere 37-42 feet (even that is rough), can be handled by us as a couple (singlehanded), and has two sleeping areas with closable doors (or I can retrofit to be so). That's really about all the constraints I have beyond financial, and even then I can afford a lot more than I'm willing to spend.

I've looked at boats built from 1967 to 2006, every flavor of keel/ rudder and rig. We've made some offers, good ones. I'm just not willing to buy wholesale problems. Wiring, plumbing, rigging, electronics, even sails are fair game. Rusted out keel bolts, delam, full peel blisters are not, unless the price was *real* attractive.

I'd rather not buy a project (yes all boats are, but you know what I mean) because I can afford not to. But I love projects, and if the right one came along at a price I can make work I'd strongly consider it. But I *will not* pay Bristol price for a project boat, and that's a lot of what's out there. I'd just be happy if sellers would even drop down in the ballpark of BUC, which is still high.

I'm not going to miss out on a boat I want over a couple of grand. Like the man said, the purchase price is the cheap part. I just would like an honest description and a realistic price.

At this point it's getting to near to my planned summer sailing to pull off a new to us boat, so I'm just going to keep banking money and scale down my plans to fit the current boat.

JRM

[70AMX]

Anyone that thinks the markets for Boats, Homes, collector cars, antiques ect are coming back within 5 years are delusional.
Has anything really gotten better?
Real unemployment is about 22% and getting worse....yes I know they keep making up figures ...........those figures are always revised downward the next week, but the powers that be are lying to you, the figures they tout are lies.
Besides reading this forum....... you NEED to read the people that saw the 2007 crash coming......NOT the economic morons that said that no one could see it coming. The people that saw the crash coming are the ones that are saying and pointing out the reasons why this "depression" is getting worse.
I am looking to buy a Catalac 9m or 10m or a Prout snowgoose or solaris, pretty much a older well built smaller cat and I have been window shopping for about 2 years now and guess what? The boats I am looking for have come down in asking price by at least 35% and I am still not ready to buy....why? the prices have no where else to go but DOWN, the middle class and upper middle class money that used to buy the boats I am interested in have disappeared, they have either lost their jobs or have taken a STEEP cut in pay and without CASH they will never get a loan....NO HOME EQUITY to use for collateral now that their house is worth 40% less than before. So I will wait and watch as more and more people NEED to sell their toys to pay their mortgage or in many cases just to eat and fill up the gas tank. The rich are getting richer in this society......but when they look at boats to buy....they are not looking for used boats from the Middle/upper middle classes.......so who is left to buy this end of the market?

Me........ when the excrement starts hitting the air moving device.
Coming Soon To A country Near You!
probably Right after the election, just like they did in 2008.

Peter Schiff predictions starting in 2002:

Peter Schiff Was Right 02-09 - YouTube

Gerald Celente will open your eyes a crack or two

Gerald Celente Calls Out the Tyrants - YouTube

Zerohedge.com
jsmineset.com

[savoir]

Nothing nasty will happen before February next year. That's a long wait.

[TomandAnitas34]

Back to the boats, I am seeing some sales on my " desirable boats list ". Some "Under contract" kind of things. The oldest boats, pre 1977, seem to be a growing percentage of boats, at least in the price ranges and lengths I'm looking at, in Florida. 'Course, you get what you pay for and there is a reason old boats are cheap....

[Celestialsailor]

Well...if you live in negativity, doom and gloom...that's exactly what you're going to get. I have a good job, my home and properties are paid off. I have a bitchin boat and all the toys I ever wanted. I'm retiring early and going to voyage...Kill your Television...that's the enemy, if you really need one.