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Old 14-04-2012, 15:45   #91
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Yes, more illustrative.

I didn't get into too much detail with the broker because there were so many other things wrong with the boat. There was other work done and he was trying to sell it all as the same package. Part of it was completely and professionally re-done rigging which was a big plus. Something about moving the mast or re-doing it somehow. I honestly didn't get much detail on it. Just reminded me of all the BS brokers have tried to sell me, or that I heard from my dad when he was looking for his boat...

At least some brokers have been honest enough to say "yeah, we're asking $X but I think he might take half that." Imagine if a real estate broker was trying to sell a house for more than double what it was worth. People would come out to look at the house and just sit there going "wtf?" They would be incredulous. But seems OK with boats.
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Old 15-04-2012, 00:25   #92
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Ya...I know what you mean about the brokers. It seems they make it up as they go along.
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Old 15-04-2012, 12:29   #93
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Ya...I know what you mean about the brokers. It seems they make it up as they go along.
Wish you would qualify your general incitements of brokers. I used to be a yacht broker and there is at least one brokerage company that is a sponsor of cruisers forum. I don't disagree that there are plenty of brokers out there that go from worthless to downright crooked. I met plenty of both when I was in the business and a few more when I was buying my last boat. However, like any group there are good and bad. Plenty of brokers out there that work hard to find the right boat for the customer and do their best to to weed out the dogs.
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Old 15-04-2012, 13:22   #94
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

My guess is that for many years and perhaps still, the world of boat brokerage is largely unregulated, at least in the US. I don't know what is involved in getting a yacht broker license but do know that I have been offered close to a dozen jobs only because I had a USCG masters ticket even though I knew zippo about buying or selling boats. I did derive a fairly steady income from deliveries over the years through a number of brokers delivering boats they had sold or buyers who wanted their new boat located elsewhere.
I had a number of good friends who were brokers in San Diego and LA who made a good living in brokerage business through the 90's but knew a quite a number who were basically lazy and wouldn't take the time to learn the industry and were just looking for a quick buck. It always amazed me folks would not hesitate to drop 6 figures on a boat that would be lucky to make it out of the harbor and the broker was only too happy to take their money.
The good ones who were knowledgeable are, by and large, still in the business even in lean times and survive on repeat business and referrals quite well.
Unfortunately, there are still a few around who believe that BS will see them through and are not above outright lying to both buyers and sellers to put a deal together.
The owners of brokerage businesses don't seem to be too concerned as long as the crew make their numbers ever month or quarter.
They have become similar to used car salesmen/women who will try every trick in the book to make their number for the month.
Both buyers and sellers of boats need to make themselves knowledgeable and informed about the market value of their boat or ones they are interested in buying and do their due diligence before sitting down with a broker IMO. Capt Phil
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Old 15-04-2012, 13:22   #95
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

When a boat has been for sale for 1+ years at X price and no one is buying it, do you think sellers still really believe the 'value" the brokers say?

Like in all things only buyers decide what something is worth! I would bet most sellers don;t do any research themselves as to what their boat is really likely to sell for.

Far as buyers; all I really used my broker for (twice) was to check into the boats I asked about, and get the answers I wanted to know about, set up appointments do the paperwork. It was up to me to decide everything else as it was my money!
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Old 15-04-2012, 13:30   #96
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

You are clearly one of what I referrd to as 'informed' buyers, Don... not many take the time to research and check out the market.
The last 2 boats I owned, I researched the going prices and condition and priced ours accordingly. Both sold without a broker at within 10% of what I had it on the market for.
The last one, I broke even excluding living aboard expenses for 5 years but got out everything we put into her except sweat equity.
It pays to do your homework! Capt Phil
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Old 15-04-2012, 13:42   #97
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Quote:
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Wish you would qualify your general incitements of brokers. I used to be a yacht broker and there is at least one brokerage company that is a sponsor of cruisers forum. I don't disagree that there are plenty of brokers out there that go from worthless to downright crooked. I met plenty of both when I was in the business and a few more when I was buying my last boat. However, like any group there are good and bad. Plenty of brokers out there that work hard to find the right boat for the customer and do their best to to weed out the dogs.
Sounds like a good beginning on a sticky thread for honest, hard working brokers. No need to publish the bad ones, but I am sure the good ones would not mind in the least.
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Old 15-04-2012, 18:27   #98
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Wish you would qualify your general incitements of brokers. I used to be a yacht broker and there is at least one brokerage company that is a sponsor of cruisers forum. I don't disagree that there are plenty of brokers out there that go from worthless to downright crooked. I met plenty of both when I was in the business and a few more when I was buying my last boat. However, like any group there are good and bad. Plenty of brokers out there that work hard to find the right boat for the customer and do their best to to weed out the dogs.
Did not mean to ruffle any feathers skipmac. In other thread I have detailed my positive and negative experiences with brokers. Both buying and selling.
I should have also clarified that buyers and sellers make up the same percentages as brokers.
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Old 15-04-2012, 18:34   #99
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

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Wish you would qualify your general incitements of brokers. .
I meant to say "indictment" but stupid spell checker#!$!@#$!!!!

On the other hand some of the brokers might have been incited.
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Old 15-04-2012, 19:21   #100
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

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Did not mean to ruffle any feathers skipmac. In other thread I have detailed my positive and negative experiences with brokers. Both buying and selling.
I should have also clarified that buyers and sellers make up the same percentages as brokers.
I'm sure you didn't. Not your style.

Just had to comment because there are some that seem to think of all yacht brokers as some lower life form. I was temped to make a joke and say sort of like lawyers but I'm sure there are some lawyers on the forum, even some honest ones, so I won't say that.
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Old 16-04-2012, 07:56   #101
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Then I will say that the one broker I did have a great experience with was in the Pacific North West, when I purchased my Ingrid 38. The broker picked me up at the airport and arranged a one day sleeping arrangement on the boat. After I bought it, he was there to help me do sea trials, bought some sleeping bags for me and gave me advice on sailing from Bremerton to Seattle, Wa. So yes, they're not all bad. All things being fair, I also used a broker in Alameda, Ca. who, when I showed up to sell my boat, he and all his other agents were drinking Mai Thai's out of cans and well lubed for the occasion. 4 weeks later I removed the boat for non performance.
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Old 16-04-2012, 08:08   #102
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Referring to the OP - No.
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Old 16-04-2012, 08:50   #103
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

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Then I will say that the one broker I did have a great experience with was in the Pacific North West, when I purchased my Ingrid 38. The broker picked me up at the airport and arranged a one day sleeping arrangement on the boat. After I bought it, he was there to help me do sea trials, bought some sleeping bags for me and gave me advice on sailing from Bremerton to Seattle, Wa. So yes, they're not all bad. All things being fair, I also used a broker in Alameda, Ca. who, when I showed up to sell my boat, he and all his other agents were drinking Mai Thai's out of cans and well lubed for the occasion. 4 weeks later I removed the boat for non performance.
Since I have purchased all of my boats directly from the owner my experiences as a customer as opposed to being the selling broker are limited and to be honest, mostly negative.

In my last boat purchase I spent a couple of years shopping and contacted several brokers. Most never replied. One, when I told him I specifically wanted a center cockpit cutter or sloop 36-44' range sent me listings for aft cockpit ketches. ???

I also know from being in the business in south FL that the majority of the brokers were basically honest, some would embellish a bit, some were downright dishonest. I had one boss seriously chastise me for telling a customer that in my opinion the boat he wanted to see was not appropriate for his stated sailing plans. I was told that my job was to tell the customer whatever he wanted to hear to get him to buy the boat.

It was an open secret that one of the very prestigious surveyors in Ft Lauderdale was a "broker's surveyor". They would not tell you a sinking hulk was ready to sail around the world but many, many details, some very costly to repair, were glossed over in the report to the buyer.

I could go on, but what's the point. The list of stories, good and bad, is endless and at the end of the day, find a broker you like or one that is recommended by an informed friend.
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Old 16-04-2012, 09:29   #104
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

Unfortunately some boats a person might be interested in were limited production boats or not many for sale and when one comes up, it is in a brokerage, so you are stuck dealing with them, getting all the pertinent information you need second hand and often times, incorrect. Like you say...the key is a good surveyor that works for you and not the broker.
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Old 16-04-2012, 09:35   #105
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Re: Is there really a buyer's shortage?

I know it will sound ironic but I've always wanted to try my hand in a brokerage myself. I have built, sailed and maintained boats over 35 years (on and off). I know most makes and know a lemon when I see one. I hate to say it but I'm getting old enough know that I no longer want to crawl into tight spaces on a boat doing glass work. I never want to retire and grow fat under a Palm tree. I'd rather grow fat in a chair in a brokerage talking boats...
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