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Old 07-08-2018, 09:28   #1
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Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Iím looking to buy a sailing cat, and Iím fine with a well-surveyed home build. My requirements include shallow draft and petrol outboards. Aussies make a lot of boats that suit me.

An Oram 40, for example; 12m long, 6m wide, daggerboards, 4 double berths, two heads. I see a 2009 listed asking $150k USD.

The boat will mainly be used along the east coast of the Americas, and sailing from Oz to Panama (or around Cape Horn) is of limited interest to me, so I need to factor in shipping costs.

Provided it surveys well, I canít imagine a cat this size asking less than $200k in Florida (for instance). Even considering that many people are leery of home builds with balsa cored hulls.

Is it my imagination, or is the same boat worth more in the USA? My family is willingly heading towards a liveaboard on the hook existence, and Iím a believer in buying ones last boat first (a bit late for that, but the fewer buys the better). Still, a plan that canít be changed is a bad one. If circumstances change, I wonder if I can reasonably hope for the boat to sell at a better price on the east coast USA than it did in Oz?

Thanks!
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:03   #2
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

No, boats in Australia like most everything else are more expensive. Duties and shipping add significantly to the cost. Of course if you happen to catch a period of exchange rate anomaly you might get lucky, but you'd never recover the shipping cost to the US
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Old 07-08-2018, 13:13   #3
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

From what Iíve heard Paul L is correct. Iíve been in Australia for about a year and that seems to be the consensus.

Iíve also hear that at one point there was even a market for buying in the US, sailing over, and selling in AU.
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Old 07-08-2018, 13:22   #4
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

There are far fewer boats in Oz than in the US, and substantial duties, so yes the same boat is certainly more expensive in Australia. And more expensive again in NZ. The upside is that there are far fewer buyers so boats can take a good while to sell and can be negotiated. You can’t easily make a profit sailing east to west but if you know what you’re doing you could do it for very little money. Sailing west to east there is no chance of getting a good deal, and if you’re going to pay someone else to do it it’ll be even worse.

If you see a boat cheaper in Australia it’s almost certain the condition is worse than you think.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:35   #5
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

I lived in Oz for two years and the only items cheaper than the US is good quality wine and lamb. When you consider Annapolis has more boats for sale than Oz, UK and Canada put together and the same again in Ft. Lauderdale you can understand why.
Prices on the West Coast are higher than the East Coast but still less than Oz.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:56   #6
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

The present exchange rate is very favorable right now. Check for your self. I also believe Aussie and New Zealand boats are well made because of the rough weather comming out of the Tasman. That said even with the great exchange rate I think the cost of transport will be $40,000.00 us or more. Again check for your self. I have been amazed at the huge cost the two times I have talked to people that have done it from this part of the world. Presently in Fiji. Why not take advantage of theexchange rate and take a few months to get your boat home. Better yet take it in a few hops and store it in between. I met several Assies when I was in Mexico in 2010 when the exchange rate was the other way around who were buying their boat updating it and selling it when they got home to Australia and paying for their cruise with some profit to boot.
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Old 08-08-2018, 15:22   #7
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

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Originally Posted by Markusik View Post
Iím looking to buy a sailing cat, and Iím fine with a well-surveyed home build. My requirements include shallow draft and petrol outboards. Aussies make a lot of boats that suit me.

An Oram 40, for example; 12m long, 6m wide, daggerboards, 4 double berths, two heads. I see a 2009 listed asking $150k USD.

The boat will mainly be used along the east coast of the Americas, and sailing from Oz to Panama (or around Cape Horn) is of limited interest to me, so I need to factor in shipping costs.

Provided it surveys well, I canít imagine a cat this size asking less than $200k in Florida (for instance). Even considering that many people are leery of home builds with balsa cored hulls.

Is it my imagination, or is the same boat worth more in the USA? My family is willingly heading towards a liveaboard on the hook existence, and Iím a believer in buying ones last boat first (a bit late for that, but the fewer buys the better). Still, a plan that canít be changed is a bad one. If circumstances change, I wonder if I can reasonably hope for the boat to sell at a better price on the east coast USA than it did in Oz?

Thanks!

Having lived in the States for a couple of years I can also support the statements that "everything" is generally more expensive here in Oz. Even excellent quality Coonawarra reds (wine) could be purchased for half the Oz price.


On the subject of a cheap Oram 40 Cat. This may or may not be the same boat but it's worth having a look at this link.



Australian cruising catamaran holed on unchartered reef in Thailand - MySailing.com.au
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Old 08-08-2018, 15:26   #8
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Another factor is the much more stringent safety regulations and enforcement.

80-90% of the boats for sale stateside would require **lots** of work before the seller could even consider selling it legally down under.

As in mostly more costly to renovate than the boat would fetch on the market.

So while it may seem the pricing is inflated down there, their condition is better than the top 10-20% of the US market, and probably thus decent value.
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Old 08-08-2018, 15:34   #9
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Orams are made in New Zealand. Roger Simpson, highly respected designer of many catamarans and the legendary Liahona trimaran worked there for a while.

As far as I know, there are Australian made catamarans such as the Crowther designs, but few are now made commercially in this country. Most are kit set or owner-built. There are exceptions though--I think the Sea Winds are still made here.

Your other question about values--taking into account the South Pacific Peso's fluctuating value--Cats are much cheaper in America.

As to the stringency of regulations--that applies to NEW vessels. Anyone can sell anything regardless of condition second hand in Oz--and there are no certificates of seaworthiness required, or any compulsory inspections regarding upkeep or seaworthiness--at least not now,. Boating from the marketing point of view is comparatively bullshit free. Caveat emptor.

If you bought a vessel here to sail or ship to America, generally speaking it would be a bad decision unless sailing the pond was on your bucket list--and doing it mostly AGAINST the prevailing winds at that. For me to attempt that in all but the most sturdy and properly maintained vessels would require at least a new rig and sails. That kills it straight away--without all of the necessary other replacements of equipment and new equipment and extra tankage required.
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Old 08-08-2018, 15:47   #10
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

In recent times, Identical boat would be almost always cheaper in USA. If you are from the US and see a cheap boat in Aus, it probably is in worse condition than you imagine. However there would be exceptions to the rule like maybe boats made in Aus that you don’t find elsewhere and recently noticed a bunch of beautifully equipped and maintained 30 something ft ocean going monos that had sailed from northern hemisphere and folks had ended their journey and sold them for AUS$60K. They sold in a heartbeat. So I reckon a decent boat at a global price sells quick in Aus. If it sits on the market it’s priced too high and you should inspect it and offer a much lower price based on value of similar boat in the US
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Old 08-08-2018, 15:57   #11
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Seawinds are made in Vietnam...


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Old 08-08-2018, 16:32   #12
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Another factor is the much more stringent safety regulations and enforcement.

80-90% of the boats for sale stateside would require **lots** of work before the seller could even consider selling it legally down under.

As in mostly more costly to renovate than the boat would fetch on the market.

So while it may seem the pricing is inflated down there, their condition is better than the top 10-20% of the US market, and probably thus decent value.
Have you actually looked at used boats in Aust? Your statement just isn't true. Boats are a premium in Aust because of import duties, high labor costs, high cost of doing business and a general economy that is very accepting to high prices on luxury items.
There are many US boats in Aust and on the market. Bringing one in and putting it up for sale requires paying duty. That $20k the seller just forked out just goes straight to the asking price.
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Old 08-08-2018, 16:37   #13
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

OK sorry was following some info on New Zealand and (obviously stupidly) figured Aus would be similar
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Old 08-08-2018, 16:51   #14
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

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OK sorry was following some info on New Zealand and (obviously stupidly) figured Aus would be similar
The markets are similar, just NZ is smaller and tends to monos, while Aussies like cats.
Sounds like you are confusing the Cat 1 certificate for an NZ flagged vessel that is required when clearing out of the country with some general requirement to inspect boats that are for sale.
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Old 08-08-2018, 17:04   #15
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Re: Is the same boat worth more in the USA than in Australia?

Got a PM, said only boats selling through surveyors require passing surveys?

Maybe just more stringent insurance requirements. . .
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