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Old 13-09-2017, 15:17   #1
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Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Could someone clarify, hopefully with a link with evidence, if importing an American registered French made boat to Canada is the same or different as an American registered american made boat to Canada? I know about nafta, I'm just looking for more concrete information which I have not been able to find... I haven't found anything that says that French made American registered is exempt from duties, but I have heard this...


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Old 13-09-2017, 16:48   #2
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

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Originally Posted by YoloSF View Post
Could someone clarify, hopefully with a link with evidence, if importing an American registered French made boat to Canada is the same or different as an American registered american made boat to Canada? I know about nafta, I'm just looking for more concrete information which I have not been able to find... I haven't found anything that says that French made American registered is exempt from duties, but I have heard this...


Thanks
I don't know why it would be. I looked a buying an American Nauticat and my research determined I would have to pay the duty which pushed the price over my limit.

Pat's boating has a relevant link but that's mostly hearsay. And now you've got me wondering where I found that...
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:21   #3
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Holy crapola, what a mess. So maybe your rumour is right and maybe it is wrong. With teh new CETA agreement things are a bit in limbo; I think you are going to have to call. According to this(http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/2017/01-99/ch89-2017-4-eng.pdf); a sailing vessel exceeding 9,.2 m is Tariff item 8903.91.12

According to this What Goods Can Canadian Importers Import Duty Free When The Canada-EU CETA Comes Into Effect? | Canada-U.S. Blog it looks like they just might eventually be duty free but "some" items will be subject to a phased in period. But as far as I can tell that might just be tugs and drilling rigs...

This (Find your EU tariff rateis where I started from. See if you can glean any more out of the bureaucratic mess..
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Old 13-09-2017, 20:30   #4
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Registration flag doesn't matter for import, it is where the boat was built and whether or not it has already been imported or not. But good luck with trying to apply CETA.

You will need to change the registration if you are not a US resident. If you want to register it in Canada, a lot depends on the model and size. If over 15m, it's a real pain. If under 15m, hopefully you can get all the original build information.
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:36   #5
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Yes "fxykty" is right about where the boat is built determines the tax implications.

We purchased our French built cat in Florida from an American and leave it there both for that reason and that is also where we want to use it along with the Bahamas.
If we bring it back here we would have to pay both 13% HST and I believe approximately 12% import duty. Call Canada Customs for the exact amount, it's no mystery, they have a book of rules.
We registered it in Canada though and as mentioned, depending on size you will also need a "tonnage survey" done for Canadian registration.
The biggest problem that we've had is getting insurance without it haven been in Canadian waters! Most company's up here wouldn't touch it. We now are using "NautiMax" for the last 3 years and the have been very affordable compared to US based insurance companies that I could find.
Good luck and enjoy your new dream!
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Old 14-09-2017, 09:54   #6
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoloSF View Post
Could someone clarify, hopefully with a link with evidence, if importing an American registered French made boat to Canada is the same or different as an American registered american made boat to Canada? I know about nafta, I'm just looking for more concrete information which I have not been able to find... I haven't found anything that says that French made American registered is exempt from duties, but I have heard this...


Thanks
The duty exemption is (loosely speaking) based on where the boat is made. Registration is irrelevant.

American registered French made boat PAYS Canadian duty; American registered american made boat DOES NOT PAY Canadian duty.

Let´s get into the detail now. In order to get the duty exemption you need to file form 434 "NAFTA Certificate of Origin" (see https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fi...rm%20434_3.pdf).

The beauty is that NAFTA will let the exporter sign the form; you do not need to have the producer sign it.

See the fine print of the form for details, in particular the note to field 10 "Country of Origin" that says "For all other originating goods exported to Canada, indicate appropriately "MX" or "US" if the goods originate in that NAFTA country, within the meaning of the NAFTA Rules of Origin Regulations, and any subsequent processing in the other NAFTA country does not increase the transaction value of the goods by more than seven percent; otherwise indicate "JNT" for joint production. (Reference: Annex 302.2) "

The basic concept of the NAFTA rules of origin (see http://2016.export.gov/FTA/nafta/eg_main_017791.asp) is that in order to turn foreign inputs into a product with NAFTA origin you either have to reach:

1) a change in tariff classification (ie turning fiberglass and resin into a boat);

2) a regional value-content requirement (adding enough NAFTA labor to a piece of wood); or both.

Making a boat in the US meets both 1 and 2. Registering it in the US doesn´t.

More detail in https://www.usitc.gov/publications/d...401gntoc_2.htm

Cheers

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Old 14-09-2017, 09:54   #7
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Curiouser and curiouser.

I've been TOLD all sorts of things.

We have 2 boats, one Canadian registry, it was such when we bought it. I'm a dual US Canadian citizen. I've kept it both Canada and the US. No issues.

The other boat is USA registry, it built in England about 1985. NO idea where the origional build info is or where to find it.

I've been TOLD that importation requires a survey, surveyor picked by Canada. As it's a one off Steel boat I have little idea on how it would be valued. Obviously I would like to know the value before getting too deep into the process.

More interestingly I was recently told that the AGE of the vessel may be important. That after so many years old it is exempt.

Canadian insurers would not touch our boat in the USA. But I found reasonable coverage through IMIS. They are a broker and cover both our boats and now our health coverage.
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Old 14-09-2017, 10:38   #8
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

We recently purchase our Outremer which was registered in Britain the boat was in Grenada and we live in Canada ,the boat had never been in N.A. It is now flagged Canadian and is still in Grenada . We looked into paying the taxes and duties but decided against it as it was about 25 % twelve of which is the duty paid on none nafta boats . We still have the importation option. The tonnage survey was done by someone accredited buy bureau veritas . It is the organization that counts not the person .this was acceptable to the ministry of transportation .
As far as insurance was concerned I just called the broker that deals with our other boat gave her the info and we were covered at about 1.25 % of value in about 20 minutes . We even have named storm coverage at that rate . This broker does however specialize in boats so really understands what you need with out a lot of back and forth . Our boat is insure with Intact .
The whole thing was not as complicated as I thought it might be.
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Old 14-09-2017, 11:03   #9
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of Canadian Government Obscurity.
I boaught a French made catamaran from St Martin and had it shipped to Vancouver, BC.
You must pay import duty on the boat.
It must be on the Canadian Ship's Registry.
To register the boat before it comes to Canada you must use a Canadian Ship's
Registry approved Tonnage Surveyor.
Got my Tonnage survey done locally by an approved surveyor and he was able to complete he survey with drawings that I got from Fountaine Pajot.
I used an import broker to arrange for the import duty to be paid before it arrived in Vancouver.
FYI, the tonnage survey is to determine how many barrels of wine the craft can carry, pretty antiquated!
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Old 14-09-2017, 11:12   #10
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pirate Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

It's barrels of rum!!! "To the wind that blows and the ship that goes" aarrrrr.
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Old 14-09-2017, 11:50   #11
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Same story for us. French built, us registered beneteau coming into Canada. We paid 9.5% duty at the border. De-registration from the us coast guard turned out to be the slowest part of the process.
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Old 14-09-2017, 15:19   #12
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

I recently bought a US registered boat, Taiwan built.
Sailed it over myself and dutifully reported to CDN customs.Nobody asked where the boat was built ( it showed on the US documentation that I provided) and I sailed through paying only the provincial and federal taxes.
Filling out forms? I wasn't asked to and I have no idea what the officers wrote down.

Sometimes you have a lucky day.
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Old 14-09-2017, 16:01   #13
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

Hello, Wannacat,
Check out Tonnage on Wikipedia.
Casket of wine is reffered to an a ton.
Just saying.
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Old 15-09-2017, 10:48   #14
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

So here is another permutation.

Our a English boat was sold to an American, changed to American registry. Presumably the importation was paid at that time. So the importation into the NAFTA region has been paid. Why then would I have to pay for that importation once again between the USA and Canada?

Not sure how to document the importation has been paid.
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Old 15-09-2017, 12:19   #15
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Re: Importing an American registered French made boat to Canada

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So here is another permutation.
Our a English boat was sold to an American, changed to American registry. Presumably the importation was paid at that time. So the importation into the NAFTA region has been paid.
Your presumption is wrong. In the US and many other countries, registration (or "documentation" in US English) in that country does not require that the boat be in the country or that duty is paid. Another story is that many Customs officers are clueless or do not care, but you cannot use that as defense when they catch you.

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Why then would I have to pay for that importation once again (snip)
In most countries import duty is a transaction tax and there is no such thing as "duty paid" status that will last forever regardless of what happens.

Most people avoid paying duty twice to the same country by taking advantage of "temporary export" benefits without even knowing. Last time I worried about this a temporary export from the US of a French duty paid boat did not require any papers but the same owner had to be the one bringing the boat back in and if the boat was sold outside the US then the notional "duty paid" status was lost.

If you are not careful you may can end up paying duty to country X when the same boat has already paid duty to country X. We have beaten this to death in an earlier thread:
Pay US Import Duty Twice After Cruising Outside US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Our a English boat was sold to an American, changed to American registry. Presumably the importation was paid at that time. So the importation into the NAFTA region has been paid. Why then would I have to pay for that importation once again between the USA and Canada?
.
Do not confuse US duty with Canadian duty. There is no thing as NAFTA duty. Duty is a transaction tax and you are talking about two different transactions and two different taxes (US duty and Canadian duty).
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